Easy for everyone to poke fun at Jarmila's physique - as long as you avoid the fact that Olizarenko was 0.15s slower with a totally different build and broke the WR by a much bigger margin. And others before by even more including a West German and an Australian.
AW has an interesting article out on the WR and how ridiculous Kratochvílová’s double at Worlds was that year:
Trickiest of all was Tuesday August 9 when she won her 400m semi-final in 51.08 and the 800m final in 1:54.68 just 35 minutes later, although AW’s coverage at the time suggests there was as little as 24 minutes between her leaving the track after the 400m and returning for the 800m. Then, the following day, she passed 200m in 23.2 before clocking 47.99 in the 400m final to beat Koch’s world record of 48.16.
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Great champion and a sweet soul.
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rojo wrote:
FangYouTang wrote:
Other than running 1:54.01, is there a reason to believe Pamela Jelimo had male levels of testosterone?
Yes. An transgender/DSD expert has told me they believe wholeheartedly she was DSD. For years people have claimed on the forums here letsrun that she has given birth as articles often talk about her kids. I wrote the expert about that in 2017 and the expert replied, "I am 99% certain that Jelimo is intersex and never gave birth to a baby. It is actually possible to be intersex and give birth, but if one has an XY DSD - and it is this subset of intersex conditions that are at that root of the sports issues - then one will not be born with internal female organs, and hence cannot give birth."
Bigot Rojo is at it again. Who is this Expert? Wejo? seriously, you have no more information than the next rightwing bozo.
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karen rodgers wrote:
Turinabol is a hell of a drug.
Was Oral Turinabol used in the Czech Republic? My impression was that it was used exclusively by East German athletes as part of their secret doping program.
It IS a very effective and ingenious drug; it's essentially Dianabol modified in such a way that water retention is negligible, making it ideal for use by track athletes and others seeking to maximize strength-to-weight ratio.
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lol lol lol lol wrote:
karen rodgers wrote:
Turinabol is a hell of a drug.
Was Oral Turinabol used in the Czech Republic? My impression was that it was used exclusively by East German athletes as part of their secret doping program.
It IS a very effective and ingenious drug; it's essentially Dianabol modified in such a way that water retention is negligible, making it ideal for use by track athletes and others seeking to maximize strength-to-weight ratio.
Black market
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wazzu1452 wrote:
Jarmila Kratochvilova could have played linebacker for the Cowboys in the 80's. She was absolutely JACKED!!!!
No not really, there are no 121 pound linebackers even in high school ball.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.27 -
Czech Mate wrote:
In 1943, the world record was 2:16.8; forty years later, the record was 1:53.28. Another forty years later, the record remains 1:53.28.
That sentence is amazing.
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bobbys girl wrote:
Not a chance. Human evolution doesn't work that fast. Don't be naive.
No evolution is needed. Mu getting the WR is not unrealistic. Once she gets in the shape of 50.0s 400m and 4:00 1500m at the same time, she's ready.
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Spotter of the gullible lifelong fool. wrote:
lol lol lol lol wrote:
Was Oral Turinabol used in the Czech Republic? My impression was that it was used exclusively by East German athletes as part of their secret doping program.
It IS a very effective and ingenious drug; it's essentially Dianabol modified in such a way that water retention is negligible, making it ideal for use by track athletes and others seeking to maximize strength-to-weight ratio.
Black market
Possibly; my guess would be another anabolic steroid (or steroids).
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no__deal wrote:
Mu and Sydney M-L are evolutionary athletes, but they will not touch the 400m or 800m records. Anyone who has coached high school boys has a good perspective on what it takes to run the WR times.
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lol lol lol lol wrote:
Spotter of the gullible lifelong fool. wrote:
Black market
Possibly; my guess would be another anabolic steroid (or steroids).
Either way the key was avoiding a positive of which the first thing would be avoid your urine being tested.
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She had very inconsistent training programs in the mid-70s in her then native Iron Block curtain country of Czechoslovakia. Her progression is not surprising to me. Plenty other athletes have bloomed late.
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The women's 800m record is softer than the 400m. Too many 800m women and their coaches treat it as a distance event instead of the long endurance sprint like the men's.
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no__deal wrote:
bobbys girl wrote:
Not a chance. Human evolution doesn't work that fast. Don't be naive.
No evolution is needed. Mu getting the WR is not unrealistic. Once she gets in the shape of 50.0s 400m and 4:00 1500m at the same time, she's ready.
You're correct. No evolution needed, just an equally potent cocktail of PEDs.
This sport jumped the shark 40+ years ago. To compete at the very top in any event requires, a whole lot of drugs and very little integrity.
Every year the new crop pretends to be clean while operating in a "gray area". That same "gray area" becomes black and white once they get popped.
Their fans/apologists cling to denial.
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TrackCoach wrote:
no__deal wrote:
Mu and Sydney M-L are evolutionary athletes, but they will not touch the 400m or 800m records. Anyone who has coached high school boys has a good perspective on what it takes to run the WR times.
I myself ran 1:53s when my PB in 400m was 51s low and 3:56 in 1500m.
Like I stated previously, Mu can get it with 50s low and 3:59 - 4:00.
As for SML, I don't believe she can crack it. 48s low at best.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
No woman beats her record without massively doping. That means that at some point it will happen, since every other record is doped.
Yep and anyone who lives in New Zealand should know. Australia has 5 times the population of New Zealand and even Switzerland has a bigger population than New Zealand, but...
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bobbys girl wrote:
You're correct. No evolution needed, just an equally potent cocktail of PEDs.
This sport jumped the shark 40+ years ago. To compete at the very top in any event requires, a whole lot of drugs and very little integrity.
Every year the new crop pretends to be clean while operating in a "gray area". That same "gray area" becomes black and white once they get popped.
Their fans/apologists cling to denial.
How about the 6th Amendment: innocent until proven guilty? If you have no proof, then I guess there is absolutely no reason to speculate.
Athletes now have better shoes, better tracks, wavelight technology, better training and regeneration. That should and could be enough to better a WR.
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lol lol lol lol wrote:
karen rodgers wrote:
Turinabol is a hell of a drug.
Was Oral Turinabol used in the Czech Republic? My impression was that it was used exclusively by East German athletes as part of their secret doping program.
It IS a very effective and ingenious drug; it's essentially Dianabol modified in such a way that water retention is negligible, making it ideal for use by track athletes and others seeking to maximize strength-to-weight ratio.
It's got to be the most potent anabolic agent for female athletes ever known.
You're right - very similar to Dianabol (D-bol was popular with the golden era bodybuilders & strength athletes), but Turinabol doesn't aromatize. Turinabol also has a higher anabolic to androgenic ratio than D-bol. Of course, as an oral agent it is hepatotoxic even in smaller dosages.
As I mentioned, Turinabol is extremely popular with female athletes. Recall the 2012 Olympics where the Russian gold medalists in the 400, 400 hurdles & steeplechase (Zaripova, Krivoshapka, antyulh) all tested positive for Turinabol in those later re-testing of the samples.
Crazy success with this one single anabolic agent.
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I can't find a 200m time for Emmanuel Korir or Alberto Juantorena who have the fastest 400m times of any great 800m runners that I can think of. I suspect that even with 44.2 speed, they wouldn't go far much faster than 21.0. Those really fast guys can sometimes get through a 400 okay, but they usually fall apart pretty quickly after that. That's why I never figured a guy like Michael Johnson could run a good 800m. If he's only a second faster than Juantorena over 400m while being a second and a half faster over 200m, it would point to having an inferior ability to hold a fast pace as the distance increased.
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Thanks for sharing those videos: fascinating!
I just want to point out that it's a logical fallacy to say that someone now could not possibly beat those times without drugs, as every other aspect of training and racing is better now than what they had 40 years ago: better shoes, tracks, pacing + wavelight, better training techniques, massage, recovery, injury prevention, diet, ....
To be clear, it's still a huge long-shot. I wouldn't give Athing Mu better than 10:1 odds to ever break the record, if that.
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