Chicago has not been raced in the supershoe era? Maybe ypu know something i don't. I thought Chicago was raced last year, and the others years too (except covid's year) as well as the others marathons. Maybe you have different data compared to the ones i have or maybe you should define what period of time supershoe era covers.
I guess people like Cherono, Kipchoge and Farah have run it barefoot, right?
Kipchoge ran Chicago once, in 2014, before the super shoe era (the “super shoes” were first available to certain privileged Nike athletes like Rupp and Kipchoge in early 2016). These were all of Kipchoge’s marathon results prior to his use of super shoes:
2013 -
Hamburg 1st 2:05:30
Berlin 2nd 2:04:05
2014 -
Rotterdam 1st 2:05:00
Chicago 1st 2:04:11
2015 -
London 1st 2:04:42
Berlin 1st 2:04:00
Oh man, Chicago is so slow.
Mo Farah has run London four times and never clocked as fast as he did in Chicago, where he ran his 2:05:11 PB.
I guess people like Cherono, Kipchoge and Farah have run it barefoot, right?
Kipchoge ran Chicago once, in 2014, before the super shoe era (the “super shoes” were first available to certain privileged Nike athletes like Rupp and Kipchoge in early 2016). These were all of Kipchoge’s marathon results prior to his use of super shoes:
2013 -
Hamburg 1st 2:05:30
Berlin 2nd 2:04:05
2014 -
Rotterdam 1st 2:05:00
Chicago 1st 2:04:11
2015 -
London 1st 2:04:42
Berlin 1st 2:04:00
Oh man, Chicago is so slow.
Mo Farah has run London four times and never clocked as fast as he did in Chicago, where he ran his 2:05:11 PB.
May have been mentioned as I’m working my way backwards in the thread, but it should be noted that Steve Jones also set the WR there in the 80’s.
As an AR I will remain unnamed but I am qualified to add some insight and perhaps some clarity.
Original discussions centered around Kiptum and Kipchoge both racing Berlin. When certain aspects of these negotiations broke down, Berlin had to make a decision. Although Kiptum is the hottest commodity at this time, Berlin chose allegiance (arm twisting perhaps) and went with Eliud. That left Chicago for Kiptum.
Herein lies the rub: Chicago was not planning to have pacers this year. While not one of my athletes, one of the pacers for the last couple editions of Chicago told me just today that his agent was informed there would be no pacers.
But certainly in the Kiptum financial arrangements pacers would have been discussed. The above athlete is an ASICS athlete and it’s likely Kiptum’s group - with or without Nike’s involvement - will be picking the pacers.
However, this scenario is a potential recipe for disaster for the rest of the field as Kiptum is likely to request a 60:25 first 21km which means you’ll have a mess following him and his group unless the race grabs additional pacers to take the main group through half in 62:10. If not who is the sacrificial lamb for guys like Rupp and Mantz, because both would be fools to go out in 60:25?
As an AR I will remain unnamed but I am qualified to add some insight and perhaps some clarity.
Original discussions centered around Kiptum and Kipchoge both racing Berlin. When certain aspects of these negotiations broke down, Berlin had to make a decision. Although Kiptum is the hottest commodity at this time, Berlin chose allegiance (arm twisting perhaps) and went with Eliud. That left Chicago for Kiptum.
Herein lies the rub: Chicago was not planning to have pacers this year. While not one of my athletes, one of the pacers for the last couple editions of Chicago told me just today that his agent was informed there would be no pacers.
But certainly in the Kiptum financial arrangements pacers would have been discussed. The above athlete is an ASICS athlete and it’s likely Kiptum’s group - with or without Nike’s involvement - will be picking the pacers.
However, this scenario is a potential recipe for disaster for the rest of the field as Kiptum is likely to request a 60:25 first 21km which means you’ll have a mess following him and his group unless the race grabs additional pacers to take the main group through half in 62:10. If not who is the sacrificial lamb for guys like Rupp and Mantz, because both would be fools to go out in 60:25?
So there’s still some unknowns out there.
So i didn't understand, are they going to give Kiptum the pacers he wants to run 60'25" the first half or aren't they? Why did he make an agreement with Chicago if they can't give him good enough pacers or if they even have not any pacer?
This post was edited 15 minutes after it was posted.
I guess people like Cherono, Kipchoge and Farah have run it barefoot, right?
Kipchoge ran Chicago once, in 2014, before the super shoe era (the “super shoes” were first available to certain privileged Nike athletes like Rupp and Kipchoge in early 2016). These were all of Kipchoge’s marathon results prior to his use of super shoes:
2013 -
Hamburg 1st 2:05:30
Berlin 2nd 2:04:05
2014 -
Rotterdam 1st 2:05:00
Chicago 1st 2:04:11
2015 -
London 1st 2:04:42
Berlin 1st 2:04:00
Oh man, Chicago is so slow.
Mo Farah has run London four times and never clocked as fast as he did in Chicago, where he ran his 2:05:11 PB.
Could you tell me why then when Kipchoge needs to run a fast time always choses to go to Berlin or at least London and NEVER goes to Chicago?
As an AR I will remain unnamed but I am qualified to add some insight and perhaps some clarity.
Original discussions centered around Kiptum and Kipchoge both racing Berlin. When certain aspects of these negotiations broke down, Berlin had to make a decision. Although Kiptum is the hottest commodity at this time, Berlin chose allegiance (arm twisting perhaps) and went with Eliud. That left Chicago for Kiptum.
Herein lies the rub: Chicago was not planning to have pacers this year. While not one of my athletes, one of the pacers for the last couple editions of Chicago told me just today that his agent was informed there would be no pacers.
But certainly in the Kiptum financial arrangements pacers would have been discussed. The above athlete is an ASICS athlete and it’s likely Kiptum’s group - with or without Nike’s involvement - will be picking the pacers.
However, this scenario is a potential recipe for disaster for the rest of the field as Kiptum is likely to request a 60:25 first 21km which means you’ll have a mess following him and his group unless the race grabs additional pacers to take the main group through half in 62:10. If not who is the sacrificial lamb for guys like Rupp and Mantz, because both would be fools to go out in 60:25?
So there’s still some unknowns out there.
So i didn't understand, are they going to give Kiptum the pacers he wants to run 60'25" the first half or aren't they? Why did he make an agreement with Chicago if they can't give him good enough pacers or if they even have not any pacer?
When you read the message please could you clarify that? It may be i didn't get it. I mean, are there going to be pacers for Kiptum? Are there going to be pacers for the rest of the field and faster pacers for Kiptum? Or is Chicago confirmed not having pacers actually?
I could open a thread entirely dedicated to this topic if you're an insider and you want to share informations related to this.
This post was edited 43 seconds after it was posted.
So i didn't understand, are they going to give Kiptum the pacers he wants to run 60'25" the first half or aren't they? Why did he make an agreement with Chicago if they can't give him good enough pacers or if they even have not any pacer?
When you read the message please could you clarify that? It may be i didn't get it. I mean, are there going to be pacers for Kiptum? Are there going to be pacers for the rest of the field and faster pacers for Kiptum? Or is Chicago confirmed not having pacers actually?
I could open a thread entirely dedicated to this topic if you're an insider and you want to share informations related to this.
Could anyone who understood this message please answer to this question instead of giving thumbs down? It would be way more nice and helpful, thanks.
When you read the message please could you clarify that? It may be i didn't get it. I mean, are there going to be pacers for Kiptum? Are there going to be pacers for the rest of the field and faster pacers for Kiptum? Or is Chicago confirmed not having pacers actually?
I could open a thread entirely dedicated to this topic if you're an insider and you want to share informations related to this.
Could anyone who understood this message please answer to this question instead of giving thumbs down? It would be way more nice and helpful, thanks.
Can you read? He said most likely Kiptum’s ASICS group will select Kiptum’s pacers, who will likely be asked to set a WR pace. Sorry, I know you desperately want Chicago to not have pacers so you can sh_t all over the race.
Could anyone who understood this message please answer to this question instead of giving thumbs down? It would be way more nice and helpful, thanks.
Can you read? He said most likely Kiptum’s ASICS group will select Kiptum’s pacers, who will likely be asked to set a WR pace. Sorry, I know you desperately want Chicago to not have pacers so you can sh_t all over the race.
No, i'm actually happy if at the end of the day what you wrote turns out to be true. Simply, because English Is not my native language, i thought he was saying that Chicago had no pacers for 2023 and that they couldn't give fast pacers to Kiptum because if they did then the rest of the field couldn't mantain the 60'25" pace for the first half. So how does it works? Why ASICS would give pacers to Kiptum if he is a nike athlete?
This post was edited 15 minutes after it was posted.
Didn't get the ASICS part and what is the point with "the rest of the field". I mean Chicago Is not going to authorize ASICS to give fast pacers to Kiptum because the rest of the field couldn't mantain the WR pace for the first half?
Kipchoge ran Chicago once, in 2014, before the super shoe era (the “super shoes” were first available to certain privileged Nike athletes like Rupp and Kipchoge in early 2016). These were all of Kipchoge’s marathon results prior to his use of super shoes:
2013 -
Hamburg 1st 2:05:30
Berlin 2nd 2:04:05
2014 -
Rotterdam 1st 2:05:00
Chicago 1st 2:04:11
2015 -
London 1st 2:04:42
Berlin 1st 2:04:00
Oh man, Chicago is so slow.
Mo Farah has run London four times and never clocked as fast as he did in Chicago, where he ran his 2:05:11 PB.
Could you tell me why then when Kipchoge needs to run a fast time always choses to go to Berlin or at least London and NEVER goes to Chicago?
Well you can’t choose London over Chicago because one is in April and the other October, so you can throw that out. As for why he chooses Berlin over Chicago, there could be a number of reasons:
-He believes Berlin is marginally faster than Chicago. When you’re trying to set a WR every second counts, but that doesn’t mean Chicago isn’t a super fast course where Kipchoge could run 2:01.
-Berlin offers him more money
-He and/or his agent have a relationship with the Berlin race director
-Even travel could affect the decision, as Nairobi to Chicago is 24+ hours while you can make it to Berlin in less than 12; there is also a one hour time difference between Kenya and Berlin vs. an 8 hour difference between Kenya and Chicago.
So whatever the reason(s) he’s preferred Berlin, it does nothing to prove that Chicago isn’t a very fast course where someone can run 2:01.
Could you tell me why then when Kipchoge needs to run a fast time always choses to go to Berlin or at least London and NEVER goes to Chicago?
Well you can’t choose London over Chicago because one is in April and the other October, so you can throw that out. As for why he chooses Berlin over Chicago, there could be a number of reasons:
-He believes Berlin is marginally faster than Chicago. When you’re trying to set a WR every second counts, but that doesn’t mean Chicago isn’t a super fast course where Kipchoge could run 2:01.
-Berlin offers him more money
-He and/or his agent have a relationship with the Berlin race director
-Even travel could affect the decision, as Nairobi to Chicago is 24+ hours while you can make it to Berlin in less than 12; there is also a one hour time difference between Kenya and Berlin vs. an 8 hour difference between Kenya and Chicago.
So whatever the reason(s) he’s preferred Berlin, it does nothing to prove that Chicago isn’t a very fast course where someone can run 2:01.
So this reasons (time zone difference between Kenya and USA, lenght of the travel etc etc) are also the reasons for which i think that Kiptum should have chosen Valencia if he wanted to try to break the WR or ti try to run an other 2.01 at least.
What about the pacers? Have you read what that anonymous guy wrote? Could you please explain me in other words what he has said about the ASICS, the pacers and the rest of the field Who couldn't mantain the 60'25" first half pace?
I ask you that because i'm not sure i got it 100% (Sorry but English Is not my language).
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
In your opinion who are going to be Kiptum's most fearsome opponents? I think Abdi, Benson Kipruto and Do Nascimento are going to be very though competitors that could put him in trouble. While i see Tura and Wolde to be way less dangerous of course.
This is going to work out for the best. Kipchoge, Kiptum and Cheptegei all do their own things and hopefully win big at each race this fall, and then they all finally meet at one spot - Paris 2024...
This could just make the Olympic Marathon that much more exciting.
By that time Kipchoge will be ~ 52 yo and potentially over the hill and gone to seed.
In your opinion who are going to be Kiptum's most fearsome opponents? I think Abdi, Benson Kipruto and Do Nascimento are going to be very though competitors that could put him in trouble. While i see Tura and Wolde to be way less dangerous of course.
At the level Kiptum has run at in his first two races, he won't have a "fearsome" opponent at all. Benson Kipruto is a very good athlete, and with good preparations would feel confident going out with Kiptum with 61' HM pacer (I disagree that they'd target 60:25 given Kiptum's negative split style). So he'd be the most qualified/bold to be right there at half with Mateiko (debut), Abdi (great credentials), and Mengesha (second full). But if Kipruto starts laying the hammer down from there, unless Mateiko is a complete natural he's going to drop everyone else quickly.
As far as the whole pacer question, I got the sense that the poster meant Kiptum's management group (Golazo/Corstjens) will be in charge of securing pacers. I think people are misreading his Asics thing. Golazo has a decent stable of guys and in general seem to have a good relationship with Global Sports, who has a couple of athletes going in Chicago (Mateiko included). Mateiko paced Kiptum in London. Granted Global's own guy Kipchoge's record being the target is a bit of a conflict of interest. But if Mateiko can put together a massive debut that's a huge boon for them in securing the next star after Kamworor and Kipchoge. Anyhow, this race will definitely be set up to run fast, and if the athletes trying to run 2:05-06 or slightly slower are in agreement they should put together a second pacer to come through in 62:45 or so.
In your opinion who are going to be Kiptum's most fearsome opponents? I think Abdi, Benson Kipruto and Do Nascimento are going to be very though competitors that could put him in trouble. While i see Tura and Wolde to be way less dangerous of course.
At the level Kiptum has run at in his first two races, he won't have a "fearsome" opponent at all. Benson Kipruto is a very good athlete, and with good preparations would feel confident going out with Kiptum with 61' HM pacer (I disagree that they'd target 60:25 given Kiptum's negative split style). So he'd be the most qualified/bold to be right there at half with Mateiko (debut), Abdi (great credentials), and Mengesha (second full). But if Kipruto starts laying the hammer down from there, unless Mateiko is a complete natural he's going to drop everyone else quickly.
As far as the whole pacer question, I got the sense that the poster meant Kiptum's management group (Golazo/Corstjens) will be in charge of securing pacers. I think people are misreading his Asics thing. Golazo has a decent stable of guys and in general seem to have a good relationship with Global Sports, who has a couple of athletes going in Chicago (Mateiko included). Mateiko paced Kiptum in London. Granted Global's own guy Kipchoge's record being the target is a bit of a conflict of interest. But if Mateiko can put together a massive debut that's a huge boon for them in securing the next star after Kamworor and Kipchoge. Anyhow, this race will definitely be set up to run fast, and if the athletes trying to run 2:05-06 or slightly slower are in agreement they should put together a second pacer to come through in 62:45 or so.
Thanks for the answer, so you're sure that the race is set to let Kiptum have his own pacers to run a very fast time, right? It would be great. I thought Chicago was not the right choice for him because they don't provide pacers or pacers that run a pace that fits guys like Rupp etc etc
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