"Aside from that, how did you enjoy the show, Mrs. Lincoln"
How you can rationalize this is beyond me.
I don't have to rationalize anything. Slavery can be bad, but slaves could have been able to use the skills learned working on plantations for employment in post-abolition. These two things can be true at once.
Your argument is no different from justifying WW2 era Jewish imprisonment and death camps due to the value of autopsy experiments. Your argument is no different from justifying WW2 era Jewish imprisonment and death camps due to the skills learned building German rockets. Btw., autopsy experiments were done on African American slaves. I want to see you type about autopsy experiments on African American slaves.
In case you did not know, many slaves went back to their owners for work after the war. What did they know how to do? Pick cotton, clean the house, feed the livestock, etc. Newly-freed slaves had trouble finding work since few people (even in the North) wanted to hire them. Many of them went back to their plantations and asked for a job, and, of course, the plantation owners needed workers so they hired them. The received housing (albeit very bad cabins), food, and clothing but they could now come and go as they pleased. They did not need to work 12+ hours a day, seven days a week. They did not have to worry about being sold or having their family broken up by such sales. They could quit the job anytime they wanted. It was not a bad deal for them. Certainly better than going to Liberia or going to the North and being unemployed. They used their "skills for their personal benefit."
I don't have feelings on the subject. Did slaves not learn skills working on farms and plantations? If they did, can you somehow explain why that fact would make slavery morally good? I don't believe it would, but you and the other screeching idiots seem to think so.
You can’t even make an intelligible argument, dolt boy.
Here, I’ll do it for you…
“If they did, can you somehow explain why that fact wouldn’t make slavery morally good?”
it's not the same as comparing Jews in camps. We knows those Jews came up in a different environment, pre concentration camp, than blacks in America, who lived as slaves from birth to death. Those Jews acquired skills before the camps.
It is a pertinent question to ask how blacks were able to survive in a free world post slavery, as long as you discuss it in the full context of their skills being limited compared to whites who had opportunity for schooling or learning other trades
You guys are discussing one sentence in a 216 page document. Read through all the African American History strands. They actually did a very good job with topics.
It simply doesn't merit saying. Describing the kind of work that slaves were forced to do carries with it the obvious implication that they had the skills to do those jobs. We don't need to say it, and we certainly don't need state level intervention to ensure that it is said - it's clearly understood. The reason is it being said is to try to offset some small part of the horrors of slavery, (and that is only being done because DeSantis wants to pander to his base (and make Trump's base his own) - but we can ignore this part and the rest of my point stands fine on its own).
In case you did not know, many slaves went back to their owners for work after the war. What did they know how to do? Pick cotton, clean the house, feed the livestock, etc. Newly-freed slaves had trouble finding work since few people (even in the North) wanted to hire them. Many of them went back to their plantations and asked for a job, and, of course, the plantation owners needed workers so they hired them. The received housing (albeit very bad cabins), food, and clothing but they could now come and go as they pleased. They did not need to work 12+ hours a day, seven days a week. They did not have to worry about being sold or having their family broken up by such sales. They could quit the job anytime they wanted. It was not a bad deal for them. Certainly better than going to Liberia or going to the North and being unemployed. They used their "skills for their personal benefit."
lol
Plantation owners finally had to pay them for work they were already doing and you're classifying this as a benefit. That's like classifying breathing as a benefit because someone stopped choking you.
You know what would be awesome? If we got back to teaching the the three R’s, people could craft and evaluate arguments about the legitimacy and relevance of topics like this for themselves.
I don't have to rationalize anything. Slavery can be bad, but slaves could have been able to use the skills learned working on plantations for employment in post-abolition. These two things can be true at once.
Your argument is no different from justifying WW2 era Jewish imprisonment and death camps due to the value of autopsy experiments. Your argument is no different from justifying WW2 era Jewish imprisonment and death camps due to the skills learned building German rockets. Btw., autopsy experiments were done on African American slaves. I want to see you type about autopsy experiments on African American slaves.
It's quite different, actually. I'm not arguing for a second that Jews being slaughtered in industrial fashion somehow gave them skills helpful for employment after being freed. The two situations aren't the same.
Are you emotional wokes even capable rationality when it comes to these topics, or just black-and-white thinking?
In case you did not know, many slaves went back to their owners for work after the war. What did they know how to do? Pick cotton, clean the house, feed the livestock, etc. Newly-freed slaves had trouble finding work since few people (even in the North) wanted to hire them. Many of them went back to their plantations and asked for a job, and, of course, the plantation owners needed workers so they hired them. The received housing (albeit very bad cabins), food, and clothing but they could now come and go as they pleased. They did not need to work 12+ hours a day, seven days a week. They did not have to worry about being sold or having their family broken up by such sales. They could quit the job anytime they wanted. It was not a bad deal for them. Certainly better than going to Liberia or going to the North and being unemployed. They used their "skills for their personal benefit."
lol
Plantation owners finally had to pay them for work they were already doing and you're classifying this as a benefit. That's like classifying breathing as a benefit because someone stopped choking you.
This is true, being paid for work is in fact better than being forced to work without pay.
Your argument is no different from justifying WW2 era Jewish imprisonment and death camps due to the value of autopsy experiments. Your argument is no different from justifying WW2 era Jewish imprisonment and death camps due to the skills learned building German rockets. Btw., autopsy experiments were done on African American slaves. I want to see you type about autopsy experiments on African American slaves.
It's quite different, actually. I'm not arguing for a second that Jews being slaughtered in industrial fashion somehow gave them skills helpful for employment after being freed. The two situations aren't the same.
Are you emotional wokes even capable rationality when it comes to these topics, or just black-and-white thinking?
You narrowly commented on my post to fit your agenda. You did not comment on the specific details regarding African American autopsies, 17th, 18th and 19th Centuries. You did not comment on the specific details regarding Jewish autopsies, WW2 era. You are not going to make the scientific advancement argument for autopsies, both eras? You did not comment on Jewish individuals building German rockets.
Plantation owners finally had to pay them for work they were already doing and you're classifying this as a benefit. That's like classifying breathing as a benefit because someone stopped choking you.
This is true, being paid for work is in fact better than being forced to work without pay.
What about college football then? The players get free housing, food, and education benefits as well.
You aren't going to really get black history in school. You need to go far deeper than that to get the real story. I own big books telling the story, it takes that.
You guys are discussing one sentence in a 216 page document. Read through all the African American History strands. They actually did a very good job with topics.
Yeah, but that shows up on page 6. Before you get to that, you get to some of these gems:
- Instruction includes how slavery was utilized in Asian, European and African cultures. (SEE, IT WASN'T JUST US!)
Instruction includes the similarities and differences between serfdom and slavery. (LOTS OF WHITES WERE INDENTURED SERVANTS, AND SLAVERY ISN'T ALL THAT DIFFERENT WHEN YOU LOOK CLOSELY!)
Describe the contact of European explorers with systematic slave trading in Africa. (SEE - THOSE PEOPLE WERE ALREADY ENSLAVING THEIR OWN!)
I could keep going, but those were the ones I got to before this (which, I would note, supports my comment above that the benefits issue was not relevant given the description of the tasks slaves were forced to perform):
Examine the various duties and trades performed by slaves (e.g., agricultural work, painting, carpentry, tailoring, domestic service, blacksmithing, transportation).
Benchmark Clarifications: Clarification 1: Instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.
I don't have to rationalize anything. Slavery can be bad, but slaves could have been able to use the skills learned working on plantations for employment in post-abolition. These two things can be true at once.
This is a defensible argument if you don't look too closely, but once you consider the context, it really falls apart.
First, this change in curriculum came after DeSantis threatened to kick The College Board out of the Florida school system altogether if they kept the same AP AA Studies curriculum that they were using in other locations.
Second, this is part and parcel of his overall efforts to use the Florida educational systems as the primary battlefield in his culture wars (see what he did with New College, see what he did with book bans, see what he did with banning LGBTQ+ clubs from having trans speakers at their after-school meetings, see what he has done with school vouchers, see what he has done with threatening to replace school board members who voted for masking policies . . .).
Third, there are lots of things that might be true, but they aren't necessarily relevant. The addition of those things to a conversation is a simple effort to distract from the primary point of the conversation. The fact that some useful skills may have been imparted upon the enslaved simply isn't relevant to the conversation about that chapter in our nation's life (and certainly not relevant to the generations of slaves who lived in died in bondage prior to 1865).
To be fair though, I'm not even sure that DeSantis is actually a racist. I think he may just be a sociopath who will take any action that he believes will get the kind of attention that he thinks he needs to advance his political career or further amass power.
So are you saying it's a conspiracy by Desantis and the FL dept of education to brainwash kids into believing that slavery was a good thing? I mean hey, you gotta admit that's a big step forward since you were all claiming that Desantis was going to brainwash students into believing that slavery and the Jim Crow era didn't happen at all.
As someone pointed out, you're all screeching over a single line, which isn't even racist or untrue, of a 216 page document.
You guys are discussing one sentence in a 216 page document. Read through all the African American History strands. They actually did a very good job with topics.
Yeah, but that shows up on page 6. Before you get to that, you get to some of these gems:
- Instruction includes how slavery was utilized in Asian, European and African cultures. (SEE, IT WASN'T JUST US!)
Instruction includes the similarities and differences between serfdom and slavery. (LOTS OF WHITES WERE INDENTURED SERVANTS, AND SLAVERY ISN'T ALL THAT DIFFERENT WHEN YOU LOOK CLOSELY!)
Describe the contact of European explorers with systematic slave trading in Africa. (SEE - THOSE PEOPLE WERE ALREADY ENSLAVING THEIR OWN!)
I could keep going, but those were the ones I got to before this (which, I would note, supports my comment above that the benefits issue was not relevant given the description of the tasks slaves were forced to perform):
Examine the various duties and trades performed by slaves (e.g., agricultural work, painting, carpentry, tailoring, domestic service, blacksmithing, transportation).
Benchmark Clarifications: Clarification 1: Instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.
You're making these interpretations in order to paint Desantis as some sort of racist propagandaist because you don't like him. Nothing you say is actually true, except for in your own mind. You're a deranged conspiracy theorist.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
No, I'm saying that your argument that since it's true, it should be in the curriculum doesn't make any sense for the several reasons that I listed.
I'm also saying that a governor is intervening on educational issues for the purpose of political pandering, and that his effort to smooth some of edges of the horror that was slavery is result of that pandering.
Very different than saying there's a conspiracy to claim slavery is good; but I don't think that you want to hear any of that because you may, perhaps, not be interested in an honest discussion of the issue.
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