You’re talking about “real wages” which actually proves my point. The reason for the stagnation is an anti- free market Central Planning agency, the Federal Reserve, continually devaluing the currency.
Tell me you can’t spell “economics” without telling me you can’t spell “economics”. Good lord.
Seems there was a meeting on Wednesday before USAs that she organized. In Gault's post-champs write-up, he says it was held but everyone was sworn to secrecy.
An athlete's union is sorely needed. Where would golf and tennis be without a pro players union? I recall it has been tried before (with Nick Symmonds?), not to mention in the 70s too. Obviously, the major sponsors don't want to see this happen, a divide and conquer strategy keeps the athletes in a weak position. One could argue that USATF would be better dealing with a one central organization as opposed to many individuals (agents, coaches, managers, athletes).
“Sworn to secrecy”, yet you want someone to be a rat……imagine yourself in a meeting where you wanted everyone to keep their traps shut until it was flushed out, and someone blabbed….I bet everyone would assume it was you….the rat.
Anyways, now that I have belittled you……..I want to agree with the athletes union being something that is needed. Running is a sport that is overlooked in media, public, other runners, and you name it. Yet, it has a big fan base. People love to watch people run fast, jump high, and throw far. It is cool, and once someone becomes hooked on the sport they will be a fan for life. Nike, Adidas, Puma, Brooks, Hoka, and any other shoe company is getting so much money off these athletes, yet the track athletes make a laughable amount from them. The outliers make a good living, but the majority are likely just making it. Which is why Tinch probably thought it was better to sell cell phones than make a world team. USATF encourages this, with their millions of rules and regulations all while they sit back scratching their fat bellies with their hundred dollar bills they are using at the strip clubs. I have zero respect for the leadership of USATF, and I hate that I had to become a member to take some of the coaching certifications. I am only encouraging their behavior. They treat these athletes like trash, and most agree but eventually just become a player in their game. Why can’t we just start a new organization? It isn’t like USATF is a big government funded organization….can’t someone just start a new “non-profit” that meets IAAF standards, but actually has the athletes in mind? Did I just come up with a $50.00 business idea? Will I finally be able to pay off Tim from finance?
What you’re bringing up is chalk and cheese. Endorsement contracts are rarely published in any sport. There are rumours and reports of that Cristiano Ronaldo is paid by Nike but nothing as a matter of public record. Whereas his club contracts are published, because those are paid for his ability to help his club win matches. His endorsements, however, are to bring positive association to his sponsors.
All things being equal, a 2hr06min marathon runner from Britain or America will make vastly more in endorsements than a man of identical ability from Kenya or Ethiopia. It’s not mystery why this is the case. Tell me if I’m mistaken, but you seem to be advocating for moving towards a model where athletes in our sport make their earnings strictly from ability and not popularity.
I think you are on to something here. In your analogy, USATF should be like the soccer club. Athletes should be paid for their ability to help the club (USATF) have the chance to win matches (medals). This is what they should bargain for - more and higher payouts to the top 3 and top 15-20 in each event. This pay structure probably happens now to some extent, but it the athletes should bargain for more money at the top and more money farther down.
Athletes’ leverage is not competing at the trials and US championships. It would only work if everyone did it together, but that’s the real issue - no incentive for the best to do that because they’d lose their shot at the real money in endorsements. But, if the USATF payouts were higher to start, there would be less emphasis on making sure to get the endorsement payout.
A runners, jumpers, multis, throwers association of some sort where pay scales were established based on a variety of factors. Unlike the NBA/NFL, there is no salary cap or established dollar amount that is regularly paid out on an annual basis. The athletes are living on sponsorships and endorsements to the best of my understanding with the occasional appearance fee and prize money.
Number is competitions per season, national rankings, and world rankings can be used to calculate a scale of base pay for association members. Think of it as paid for play instead of the pay to play model in a lot of school districts now a days. Where is the money to find these salaries coming from? Tv contracts, an investment from some of the largest current sponsors, creative solutions my brain isn't coming up with this morning, etc. Nothing is stopping these athletes from then going out and receiving additional revenue streams through endorsements, sponsorships, etc.
Seems there was a meeting on Wednesday before USAs that she organized. In Gault's post-champs write-up, he says it was held but everyone was sworn to secrecy.
An athlete's union is sorely needed. Where would golf and tennis be without a pro players union? I recall it has been tried before (with Nick Symmonds?), not to mention in the 70s too. Obviously, the major sponsors don't want to see this happen, a divide and conquer strategy keeps the athletes in a weak position. One could argue that USATF would be better dealing with a one central organization as opposed to many individuals (agents, coaches, managers, athletes).
Completely agree. A T&F athlete union is way overdue. Hoping the athlete group can find good leadership however. They need someone who is not only a big name, but one who is experienced and well respected.
Seems there was a meeting on Wednesday before USAs that she organized. In Gault's post-champs write-up, he says it was held but everyone was sworn to secrecy.
An athlete's union is sorely needed. Where would golf and tennis be without a pro players union? I recall it has been tried before (with Nick Symmonds?), not to mention in the 70s too. Obviously, the major sponsors don't want to see this happen, a divide and conquer strategy keeps the athletes in a weak position. One could argue that USATF would be better dealing with a one central organization as opposed to many individuals (agents, coaches, managers, athletes).
“Sworn to secrecy”, yet you want someone to be a rat……imagine yourself in a meeting where you wanted everyone to keep their traps shut until it was flushed out, and someone blabbed….I bet everyone would assume it was you….the rat.
Anyways, now that I have belittled you……..I want to agree with the athletes union being something that is needed. Running is a sport that is overlooked in media, public, other runners, and you name it. Yet, it has a big fan base. People love to watch people run fast, jump high, and throw far. It is cool, and once someone becomes hooked on the sport they will be a fan for life. Nike, Adidas, Puma, Brooks, Hoka, and any other shoe company is getting so much money off these athletes, yet the track athletes make a laughable amount from them. The outliers make a good living, but the majority are likely just making it. Which is why Tinch probably thought it was better to sell cell phones than make a world team. USATF encourages this, with their millions of rules and regulations all while they sit back scratching their fat bellies with their hundred dollar bills they are using at the strip clubs. I have zero respect for the leadership of USATF, and I hate that I had to become a member to take some of the coaching certifications. I am only encouraging their behavior. They treat these athletes like trash, and most agree but eventually just become a player in their game. Why can’t we just start a new organization? It isn’t like USATF is a big government funded organization….can’t someone just start a new “non-profit” that meets IAAF standards, but actually has the athletes in mind? Did I just come up with a $50.00 business idea? Will I finally be able to pay off Tim from finance?
Nowhere did I ask anyone to be a rat. I just said there was a meeting and everyone was sworn to secrecy. Then I go on to state that a union is needed and the thread (for the most part) had good comments, explanations etc.
Hope you feel good that you 'belittled' me. I'm sure it made your day.
weird, I thought the lockdown, vaccine mandate and cancel culture side was also pro-union
Like most leftist arguments , its extremely dishonest. It’s not even being anti-union. It’s about coerced price manipulation.
Governments do this via price controls. Unions do this via strikes and by threatening anybody who crosses the picket line.
Leftists want you to believe that no one would ever make imoney without unions. Yet, union representation is at all time lows and income per capita is at all time highs.
They just don’t like the free market. That’s why it’s pointless to argue with them.
Do you read the papers? Or watch TV? Oh wait, that’s right, the writers and actors are ON STRIKE. Organized Labor is making great progress this year, in previously-neglected areas like nursing, entertainment, and education (especially adjunct faculty).
Seems there was a meeting on Wednesday before USAs that she organized. In Gault's post-champs write-up, he says it was held but everyone was sworn to secrecy.
An athlete's union is sorely needed. Where would golf and tennis be without a pro players union? I recall it has been tried before (with Nick Symmonds?), not to mention in the 70s too. Obviously, the major sponsors don't want to see this happen, a divide and conquer strategy keeps the athletes in a weak position. One could argue that USATF would be better dealing with a one central organization as opposed to many individuals (agents, coaches, managers, athletes).
Completely agree. A T&F athlete union is way overdue. Hoping the athlete group can find good leadership however. They need someone who is not only a big name, but one who is experienced and well respected.
Couple of problems. First, are track stars employees or are they independent contractors? Federal labor law does not protect independent contractors. Second, what would be an appropriate bargaining unit? Just sprinters like Sha’Carri, or would the unit also include long distance runners, throwers, jumpers, etc.? There has to be a community of interest.
Don't want to get into a whole discussion on the pros and cons of unions. Specifically, in sports, I think unions are needed. In all sports, the players association can bargain collectively. T&F athletes need an association (if you don't want to call it a union).
I agree that you have to look at a union in sports differently than most other industries. This is not auto manufacturing or Hollywood where there are multiple employers. A sports league in essence has monopoly power, and thus it is not a fair free market negotiation. The individual athletes have almost no negotiating leverage.
But there are risks of unintended consequences. One thing about T&F versus other sports is the overwhelming dominance of a single event (the Olympics) in which a relatively small portion of the total athlete population would compete. Sports like tennis and golf do not have that dynamic, so it is difficult to predict exactly what would happen.
Unions can be really bad for Olympic sports because pro sports unions have the right to restrict membership by age and bar USATF from allowing people under a certain age to compete. For example the NFL requires players to be 3 years out from high school. A union could bar Knighton from competing at the US pro level. Unionization will inevitably lead to gatekeeping that weakens American teams.
Disagree. A better sport comparison would be tennis and golf. For the tennis tour it is 14 and golf is 18. (Most think 14 is too young, but that neither here nor there). Using football is a bad comparison. I don't think a player's association would prevent someone like Mia B-P from competing, especially since she has the times to back it up. Also, if WA does not have an age standard, USATF won't either.
The other thing about T&F is that collegians, who cannot be paid for meets, play a bigger role in the US championships than in sports like tennis or golf. Sure many of the top ones turn pro, but not all. That is another dynamic that would need to be considered, because there would be an incentive for the pros to want to exclude college athletes so there is less competition. It would be nice for Prakel if Waskom were somehow excluded from the field in the 1500 this year.
Seems there was a meeting on Wednesday before USAs that she organized. In Gault's post-champs write-up, he says it was held but everyone was sworn to secrecy.
An athlete's union is sorely needed. Where would golf and tennis be without a pro players union? I recall it has been tried before (with Nick Symmonds?), not to mention in the 70s too. Obviously, the major sponsors don't want to see this happen, a divide and conquer strategy keeps the athletes in a weak position. One could argue that USATF would be better dealing with a one central organization as opposed to many individuals (agents, coaches, managers, athletes).
Completely agree. A T&F athlete union is way overdue. Hoping the athlete group can find good leadership however. They need someone who is not only a big name, but one who is experienced and well respected.
Wasn't there a group that included Christian Taylor and a few other big names try this a few years ago and it seemed to go nowhere
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