The old school 1230m pacer a-la William Tainui. I will check with some sources and see if there is any heat to that. If this was true then it wouldn't be unreasonable to think they would want him to run under 2.46 through 1200 which would mean Jakob is looking to run in the low 27's
Understandable that Jakob keeps chasing times, but you’d think at least once before Budapest he might like to try a 1500 against quality competition with no pacers. Is it like a rule that every DL distance race must be paced? It’s sort of boring after a while. Who decides about the pacers? Can the athletes, or an athlete of Jakob’s stature, say no pacers this time out?
I actually agree with this and I think WA should step in and structure it purposely. I don't see why every race needs a pacemaker - I don't actually understand how when it comes to the DL final that this race in particular has a pacemaker when in essence it's a championship/title race.
We have 8 DL 1500m/mile races this season including the final in Eugene which absolutely shouldn't be paced, I don't see why 2-3 of these other 7 races can't be "no-pace, no-wavelight" races. Not only does it give chances to guys in that 4-10 level to potentially grab a few better finishes (I don't know if it changes that Jakob will be at the front at the finish anyways), but then it also makes the paced attempts more exclusive and special.
I don't think it's a rule but there are a few things going against this. Meets still "compete" vs each other for the most preferred TV slots and the rankings are done on combined scores from events so faster races = more points. Some meets aren't established/set in stone DL level and need names in their fields. Take the 1500 - even in a slower, championship race how many of the field is capable of winning/hitting the podium? I think most athletes still prioritize times vs placings, especially when the money in spots 4-8 isn't that great/differentiated. But the biggest thing is the star athlete - in this case Jakob. A lot of his appearances in these meets are term contract situations (like Lausanne, 150k for 3 years of appearances) and part of those contracts are pacing. He could in theory say no but why would he? - his best chance of winning/easiest path to winning is to have 2 guys towing him out in 1.51.
It's weird because we have seen this before in particular with El G where for a number of seasons the races really were boring. Yes the field is much closer to J.I than it was to Hicham but there is still the same feeling of inevitability at play when you start seeing the field strung out through 1000m. Some of those late 90's/early 2000's Golden League races were kind of comical with him winning at times by 30-40m. Once or twice a season it's cool to see - not every race.
That's why I think a larger strategy needs to be employed and yeah, a predetermined pacing structure employed looking at the entire season of races.
Understandable that Jakob keeps chasing times, but you’d think at least once before Budapest he might like to try a 1500 against quality competition with no pacers. Is it like a rule that every DL distance race must be paced? It’s sort of boring after a while. Who decides about the pacers? Can the athletes, or an athlete of Jakob’s stature, say no pacers this time out?
I actually agree with this and I think WA should step in and structure it purposely. I don't see why every race needs a pacemaker - I don't actually understand how when it comes to the DL final that this race in particular has a pacemaker when in essence it's a championship/title race.
We have 8 DL 1500m/mile races this season including the final in Eugene which absolutely shouldn't be paced, I don't see why 2-3 of these other 7 races can't be "no-pace, no-wavelight" races. Not only does it give chances to guys in that 4-10 level to potentially grab a few better finishes (I don't know if it changes that Jakob will be at the front at the finish anyways), but then it also makes the paced attempts more exclusive and special.
I don't think it's a rule but there are a few things going against this. Meets still "compete" vs each other for the most preferred TV slots and the rankings are done on combined scores from events so faster races = more points. Some meets aren't established/set in stone DL level and need names in their fields. Take the 1500 - even in a slower, championship race how many of the field is capable of winning/hitting the podium? I think most athletes still prioritize times vs placings, especially when the money in spots 4-8 isn't that great/differentiated. But the biggest thing is the star athlete - in this case Jakob. A lot of his appearances in these meets are term contract situations (like Lausanne, 150k for 3 years of appearances) and part of those contracts are pacing. He could in theory say no but why would he? - his best chance of winning/easiest path to winning is to have 2 guys towing him out in 1.51.
It's weird because we have seen this before in particular with El G where for a number of seasons the races really were boring. Yes the field is much closer to J.I than it was to Hicham but there is still the same feeling of inevitability at play when you start seeing the field strung out through 1000m. Some of those late 90's/early 2000's Golden League races were kind of comical with him winning at times by 30-40m. Once or twice a season it's cool to see - not every race.
That's why I think a larger strategy needs to be employed and yeah, a predetermined pacing structure employed looking at the entire season of races.
I agree with this. It would be nice if there was some kind of season long competition that incentivized racing and where placing actually mattered. The DL as it currently stands feels like a series of disparate competitions. Nobody cares about the DL points, its a complete afterthought. You can show up to 1-2 DLs and make the DL Final.
F1 and the PGA Tour are both individual sports where there is continuity across the year and a season long race that actually matters to athletes and fans. I would love to see the top guys compete 5-6 times against each other every year, in a variety of paced/unpaced races.
Understandable that Jakob keeps chasing times, but you’d think at least once before Budapest he might like to try a 1500 against quality competition with no pacers. Is it like a rule that every DL distance race must be paced? It’s sort of boring after a while. Who decides about the pacers? Can the athletes, or an athlete of Jakob’s stature, say no pacers this time out?
I actually agree with this and I think WA should step in and structure it purposely. I don't see why every race needs a pacemaker - I don't actually understand how when it comes to the DL final that this race in particular has a pacemaker when in essence it's a championship/title race.
We have 8 DL 1500m/mile races this season including the final in Eugene which absolutely shouldn't be paced, I don't see why 2-3 of these other 7 races can't be "no-pace, no-wavelight" races. Not only does it give chances to guys in that 4-10 level to potentially grab a few better finishes (I don't know if it changes that Jakob will be at the front at the finish anyways), but then it also makes the paced attempts more exclusive and special.
I don't think it's a rule but there are a few things going against this. Meets still "compete" vs each other for the most preferred TV slots and the rankings are done on combined scores from events so faster races = more points. Some meets aren't established/set in stone DL level and need names in their fields. Take the 1500 - even in a slower, championship race how many of the field is capable of winning/hitting the podium? I think most athletes still prioritize times vs placings, especially when the money in spots 4-8 isn't that great/differentiated. But the biggest thing is the star athlete - in this case Jakob. A lot of his appearances in these meets are term contract situations (like Lausanne, 150k for 3 years of appearances) and part of those contracts are pacing. He could in theory say no but why would he? - his best chance of winning/easiest path to winning is to have 2 guys towing him out in 1.51.
It's weird because we have seen this before in particular with El G where for a number of seasons the races really were boring. Yes the field is much closer to J.I than it was to Hicham but there is still the same feeling of inevitability at play when you start seeing the field strung out through 1000m. Some of those late 90's/early 2000's Golden League races were kind of comical with him winning at times by 30-40m. Once or twice a season it's cool to see - not every race.
That's why I think a larger strategy needs to be employed and yeah, a predetermined pacing structure employed looking at the entire season of races.
Thank you! We have Berlin and we have Boston, and both are fun in their own way. As a fan, the non paced events are more wide open and entertaining in my opinion. The athletes need to make more tactical decisions and it’s not simply a fitness test. Yes, Jakob would likely win regardless these days, so good for him, but I’d like to see him try outside of just Budapest this year.
I actually agree with this and I think WA should step in and structure it purposely. I don't see why every race needs a pacemaker - I don't actually understand how when it comes to the DL final that this race in particular has a pacemaker when in essence it's a championship/title race.
We have 8 DL 1500m/mile races this season including the final in Eugene which absolutely shouldn't be paced, I don't see why 2-3 of these other 7 races can't be "no-pace, no-wavelight" races. Not only does it give chances to guys in that 4-10 level to potentially grab a few better finishes (I don't know if it changes that Jakob will be at the front at the finish anyways), but then it also makes the paced attempts more exclusive and special.
I don't think it's a rule but there are a few things going against this. Meets still "compete" vs each other for the most preferred TV slots and the rankings are done on combined scores from events so faster races = more points. Some meets aren't established/set in stone DL level and need names in their fields. Take the 1500 - even in a slower, championship race how many of the field is capable of winning/hitting the podium? I think most athletes still prioritize times vs placings, especially when the money in spots 4-8 isn't that great/differentiated. But the biggest thing is the star athlete - in this case Jakob. A lot of his appearances in these meets are term contract situations (like Lausanne, 150k for 3 years of appearances) and part of those contracts are pacing. He could in theory say no but why would he? - his best chance of winning/easiest path to winning is to have 2 guys towing him out in 1.51.
It's weird because we have seen this before in particular with El G where for a number of seasons the races really were boring. Yes the field is much closer to J.I than it was to Hicham but there is still the same feeling of inevitability at play when you start seeing the field strung out through 1000m. Some of those late 90's/early 2000's Golden League races were kind of comical with him winning at times by 30-40m. Once or twice a season it's cool to see - not every race.
That's why I think a larger strategy needs to be employed and yeah, a predetermined pacing structure employed looking at the entire season of races.
Thank you! We have Berlin and we have Boston, and both are fun in their own way. As a fan, the non paced events are more wide open and entertaining in my opinion. The athletes need to make more tactical decisions and it’s not simply a fitness test. Yes, Jakob would likely win regardless these days, so good for him, but I’d like to see him try outside of just Budapest this year.
One more thing about Jakob, he seems like such a fierce competitor that he might like the opportunity to perfect his craft and win under all sorts of race scenarios. I’d think he would not just want the easiest path for him. Look at Kipyegon, she’s the true goat because we know she’s going to win a 3:50 race or a 4:05 race and everything in between no matter the circumstances or conditions. I would assume this is Jakob’s ambition too.
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McSweyn ran faster in his last race than any of those 3 Kenyans ever have, and he split 2:48.6 for 1200, .5 seconds behind Jakob. For all we know he’s fast tracking back to 3:29/3:30 shape. You can’t complain about having Sowinski and McSweyn as pacers. Sowinski is no doubt capable of hitting 900 in 2:04.5-2:05.0, and McSweyn can then drop Jakob off at the bell at 2:32-low.
Good defense of him. He just seems to be erratic but hopefully he is back to form. I think Sowinski is a great first pacer and OK second pacer. McSweyn if healthy (large if) could be quite good.
And what does Katir say about being 'delisted'? Just shrugs his shoulders and wishes Jakob good luck for his time trial? It's not like the 80's where if Coe or Ovett didn't want to face each other in the 1500, they would just set up a high-quality mile race in addition to keep them both happy.
Yeah I think that was a crockpot theory. Katir is running the Monaco 5,000. Likely looking for a large PB and sub-12:45 time. It was always going to be a decision between one of the two (Monaco 5, Silesia 15) and then Spanish Champs.
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I remember that. To me as a fan it was disappointing that they seemed to dodge each other so much. Ovett/Coe/Cram would've been amazing to watch on a regular basis. I was in a meet in 1981 where I met Ovett - he seemed like a good guy and I think he would've been up to racing more.
Beatrice Chebet withdraws from the 3,000…lame. She got smoked in the Kenyan Trials 1500 - granted not her event. Tsegay massive favorite now.
In the 400 perhaps that hot weather opens the door for a sub-44 from Deadmon and Van Niekerk. Samukonga already has 1. We’ll see how fit Dos Santos is.
The US men also need to lay down a real 100. Hot conditions with in-form Kerley, Lyles, Coleman, Simbine plus the Jamaicans.
I actually agree with this and I think WA should step in and structure it purposely. I don't see why every race needs a pacemaker - I don't actually understand how when it comes to the DL final that this race in particular has a pacemaker when in essence it's a championship/title race.
We have 8 DL 1500m/mile races this season including the final in Eugene which absolutely shouldn't be paced
If I am not mistaken, the Golden League finals in the old days were without pacemakers... should be like that now as well!
Beatrice Chebet withdraws from the 3,000…lame. She got smoked in the Kenyan Trials 1500 - granted not her event. Tsegay massive favorite now.
In the 400 perhaps that hot weather opens the door for a sub-44 from Deadmon and Van Niekerk. Samukonga already has 1. We’ll see how fit Dos Santos is.
The US men also need to lay down a real 100. Hot conditions with in-form Kerley, Lyles, Coleman, Simbine plus the Jamaicans.
In light of the Chebet withdrawal, next question for you….what’s the deal with Hassan? Why does she absent herself from all of these races while her rivals are fighting it out and posting fast times? She opened nicely in Hengelo, but then Stumptown?? Is she savvy, scared, just doing her own thing??
In light of the Chebet withdrawal, next question for you….what’s the deal with Hassan? Why does she absent herself from all of these races while her rivals are fighting it out and posting fast times? She opened nicely in Hengelo, but then Stumptown?? Is she savvy, scared, just doing her own thing??
Definitely the latter. London 5k a possibility for her?
Her not opting to defend her mile WR vs Faith is interesting. They’re both same management so certainly she could do it if she wanted to like Gidey (same mgmt too) did.
In light of the Chebet withdrawal, next question for you….what’s the deal with Hassan? Why does she absent herself from all of these races while her rivals are fighting it out and posting fast times? She opened nicely in Hengelo, but then Stumptown?? Is she savvy, scared, just doing her own thing??
Definitely the latter. London 5k a possibility for her?
Her not opting to defend her mile WR vs Faith is interesting. They’re both same management so certainly she could do it if she wanted to like Gidey (same mgmt too) did.
I think even the great Hassan knows that defending her mile record against Faith is a lost cause. I thought maybe she’d give the Silesia 3000 a go. That would have been fun.
I think even the great Hassan knows that defending her mile record against Faith is a lost cause. I thought maybe she’d give the Silesia 3000 a go. That would have been fun.
For sure. I didn’t realize Chebets travel and it makes sense she’d skip Silesia after having to fly back to Kenya for their Trials and performing poorly. Maybe will see her in London which is 1 more week of rest.
He will be accompanied with 3 other Moroccans: Tindoft, Bouassal and the young from Oujda, Mohammed MSAAD (19 years who already got his minima 8:16:18).
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I actually agree with this and I think WA should step in and structure it purposely. I don't see why every race needs a pacemaker - I don't actually understand how when it comes to the DL final that this race in particular has a pacemaker when in essence it's a championship/title race.
We have 8 DL 1500m/mile races this season including the final in Eugene which absolutely shouldn't be paced
If I am not mistaken, the Golden League finals in the old days were without pacemakers... should be like that now as well!
I don't know if it applied to the Golden League (because there was no specific final you qualified for it was just a combination of points or you had to win at every GL meet) but the meet I think you are talking about is the old Grand Prix final which ended in like 2002 from memory. That meet definitely didn't have pacemakers - El Guerrouj famously lost the mile around the peak of his powers (1997 - a year he ran 3.45 for the mile) to Robert Andersen of Denmark (by way of Kenya) at the GP final in Fukuoka in 4.04!
But fully agree with the sentiment - no way a "final" should be paced.
