I know I will get downvoted, but this is not impressive at all. She is running 9 minute miles.
Gidey ran 4:48 pace for an hour (her half marathon).
Are you really comparing the pace of running 13 miles on a flat course with that of running 100 miles of trail with 40,000 feet of elevation change, some at altitude with the trail covered with snow? How many rivers or creeks did Gidey cross in her race?
Gidey is amazing but I see no point in making irrelevant comparisons between her and Courtney.
A more productive conversation..if comparisons are to be made is really between Schide and Dewalter, and also between UTMB and Western States.
I think Schide is also such an incredible athlete. The way she ran UTMB last year was amazing. I *feel* like she is on the level of Courtney but again it's just hard to compare because in the end western states isn't utmb..that's kind of the cool thing about trails! Each person might be great at 100 miles, but different terrain can be a big factor.
Isn't the time gap basically 9-10% in all the events from the 100m to the Marathon? I don't know what the gap is in the ultra world but someone can do the math for us. I don't know the best ultra times...
The gap in the 5km is 8.9%.
The gap in the 100m dash is 9.1%
The gap in the marathon is 9.0%
Where did you learn math? I see what you did: men's time divided by women's time times 10... and that's wrong. If you want to do "how much less time does the men's time take compared to the women's time?", at least do (1-(men's time/woman's time))*10, which is the reciprocal of "how much longer does the woman time take compared to the men's time" that people normally use.
The 5k difference is 14.7%, the 5000 is 11.9%, the 100m is 9.5%, the marathon is 10.7%.
The average difference of WRs from 100 to marathon (included 100, 200, 400, 800, 1500, mile, 3000 steeplechase, 3000, 5000, 10000, 5K, 10K, half marathon and marathon) is 11.3% with the range being 9.3% to 14.7%.
The ultras I have bothered to put in my spreadsheet mostly have a higher difference than 11.3%, probably because women have been underrepresented in those particular events (and really, I should have looked more at trail/mountain CRs than flat distance ultras that no one really runs - except Comrades). The exception is the 100 km, which is only 7.5%. There's a tailwind theory for that one I think, kind of like how the 9.5% for the 100m explained by a malfunctioning wind gauge.
50 km 13.7%
50 miles 17.3%
100 km 7.5%
100 miles 16.8%
12 hrs 16.1%
24 hrs 18.3%
UTMB CR 13.6%
Western States 100 CR 9.4% (was 18.6% until yesterday)
He made a wrong turn and shuffled in. That takes away from whatever point you tried but failed to make.
Results are results. Loser worshippers like you make excuses when they lose. "I shuffled in, therefore I didn't lose" and "I got lost, therefore I didn't lose" are new ones. How about, "Those people ran faster on a day I when ran slower, therefore I didn't lose," this makes as much sense as your pointless reply.
I know I will get downvoted, but this is not impressive at all. She is running 9 minute miles.
Gidey ran 4:48 pace for an hour (her half marathon).
Track/road guys saying this always makes me laugh. I mean, top high school guys can jog 7 min pace - 9 min pace is a joke to them! why don’t they go out and smash every course record easily?
running on trails is a completely different sport. Yes fitness translates but you can’t just say “wow, 9 minute miles that’s slow”. There’s 18k’ of vert in this race, it’s not comparable to your 3 mile tuesday jog on the sidewalk
1) a net downhill does not mean it’s all downhill…
2) downhill trail running is way harder on your legs than the uphills. So to imply that the WSER course is easy because it’s net downhill is just flat out wrong.
Hahahahaha there are women running 14:06 for 5k and losing and you think this is close to an all time effort??
Your failure to comprehend does not make this a failure of accomplishment. Courtney was 70 minutes (almost 10%) faster than a record that some thought might have been the best women's performance ever.
Nah. Any race you need to stop for dinner breaks doesn't count as a real race in my book.
I know I will get downvoted, but this is not impressive at all. She is running 9 minute miles.
Gidey ran 4:48 pace for an hour (her half marathon).
Track/road guys saying this always makes me laugh. I mean, top high school guys can jog 7 min pace - 9 min pace is a joke to them! why don’t they go out and smash every course record easily?
running on trails is a completely different sport. Yes fitness translates but you can’t just say “wow, 9 minute miles that’s slow”. There’s 18k’ of vert in this race, it’s not comparable to your 3 mile tuesday jog on the sidewalk
You act like real runners never use trails lol. Slow runners just choose to run farther because it doesn't hurt as bad, they get dinner breaks, and training to run fast is too hard. Jogging 9 minute pace is much easier and guess what? GIDEY CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT.
You act like real runners never use trails lol. Slow runners just choose to run farther because it doesn't hurt as bad, they get dinner breaks, and training to run fast is too hard. Jogging 9 minute pace is much easier and guess what? GIDEY CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT.
Gidey can’t even dial her nutrition/hydration/body temp right for a XC race. Those “dinner breaks” you are scoffing at are the key to performance in 10+ hrs races.
This is insightful and helpful to see. The gap is still there, but what's interesting is that individual women can and do win and/or place highly at ultras, because of small fields and the special variables involved with ultra trail racing. This NEVER happens in shorter races, but championship races like WSER demonstrate that the gap exists in ultras too. Courtney did beat a ton of elite men though. Mostly it is just WILD to see people actually RACING at the 100M distance, as opposed to surviving, eating meals, sleeping etc... those elites have it almost as dialed in as elite marathoners.
You act like real runners never use trails lol. Slow runners just choose to run farther because it doesn't hurt as bad, they get dinner breaks, and training to run fast is too hard. Jogging 9 minute pace is much easier and guess what? GIDEY CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT.
Gidey can’t even dial her nutrition/hydration/body temp right for a XC race. Those “dinner breaks” you are scoffing at are the key to performance in 10+ hrs races.
"Race"
You use this term very loosely. Race times shouldn't be dictated by how fast you can eat or how well you can consume calories. If eating is a massive "key" to performance like you say, then this is an eating competition.
I'm done posting on this thread because I simply don't care about eating competitions.
You use this term very loosely. Race times shouldn't be dictated by how fast you can eat or how well you can consume calories. If eating is a massive "key" to performance like you say, then this is an eating competition.
I'm done posting on this thread because I simply don't care about eating competitions.
Your definition of a “race” is very rigid and limited and excludes some of the biggest events in the world.
PS: eating competitions themselves are in fact a form of racing.
I could see a good argument that a race like Badwater 135 that half or more of the competition is based on dealing with heat because they intentionally have it in the heat of the summer in a very hot area and half or less of the competition is based on a footrace.
I don't see the same thing with Western States. It is almost entirely a footrace. A competitor must maintain nutrition but same can be said with a marathon. Almost no one doesn't take calories in a marathon these days.
You use this term very loosely. Race times shouldn't be dictated by how fast you can eat or how well you can consume calories..…
So I guess marathons aren't races for you?
I think we all know that getting enough carbs / sugar during a marathon is critical - not just for the WR-type performance but for us hobby joggers running 2:30-2:40 times.
I'd certainly say that half marathon and up, race times are dictated by how you get your calories.
We got it. You don't care about ultras. I bet Courtney could stil destroy you in a road marathon too (while smiling).
Track/road guys saying this always makes me laugh. I mean, top high school guys can jog 7 min pace - 9 min pace is a joke to them! why don’t they go out and smash every course record easily?
running on trails is a completely different sport. Yes fitness translates but you can’t just say “wow, 9 minute miles that’s slow”. There’s 18k’ of vert in this race, it’s not comparable to your 3 mile tuesday jog on the sidewalk
You act like real runners never use trails lol. Slow runners just choose to run farther because it doesn't hurt as bad, they get dinner breaks, and training to run fast is too hard. Jogging 9 minute pace is much easier and guess what? GIDEY CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT.
No, the dirt roads in boulder don’t count as trail running sorry. I seriously doubt any competitive track runner is ever doing a run on highly technical and steep trail terrain. For a track race there is no benefit to exposing yourself to that much downhill and rolled ankle possibility
you talk about how training to run too fast is hard - Matthieu Blanchard (who Courtney Dauwalter beat) ran 2:22 at Paris in his build for WSER. Obviously not a podium time, but certainly not slow. And he got chicked!
No, the dirt roads in boulder don’t count as trail running sorry. I seriously doubt any competitive track runner is ever doing a run on highly technical and steep trail terrain. For a track race there is no benefit to exposing yourself to that much downhill and rolled ankle possibility
you talk about how training to run too fast is hard - Matthieu Blanchard (who Courtney Dauwalter beat) ran 2:22 at Paris in his build for WSER. Obviously not a podium time, but certainly not slow. And he got chicked!
But lets not forget that it is a huge advantage to live and train in the US for Western States. For a French runner it's a lot harder to show up in California and race in altitude, snow and heat at the same time.
