Did Waldemar Cierpinski cheat to win the Gold Medal in the 1976 and 1980 Olympic Marathons?

When the GDR doping program was being investigated in the late 1990s, the team doctor or coach testified that both Waldemar Cierpinski and Frank Baumgartl had initially been taking steroids under the hormone program. He also alleged that both dropped out of the program because of "subjective disadvantages".

In his book ('42,195 Auf den Spuren zweier Olympiasiege') Cierpinski wrote that at the time of his athletic carreer, there were only steroids as PEDs. He also claims that steroids would not benefit a distant runner. Of course, he never says that he did try them by himself.

So, I think he may have taken steroids at some point, but soon found out it wouldn't help. I don't think he was taking PEDs. Just a very talented runner and a lot of hard work.

That seems ever so vaguely familiar. I also recall reading somewhere that Cierpinski was something of a "maverick," that was the word who mostly went his own way and kept apart from the DDR sports establishment.

He cheated, period.

Very possibly. Either way, I'd really like to see that list that supposedly has his name and what he took. Then I could be as sure as you seem to be.

Here's an excellent paper by Franke on the hormonal doping & androgenization of the East German athletes.

Turinabol was the primary anabolic steroid utilized (similar molecular structure to Dianabol), where in the bodybuilding community it is a lean bulking drug known for tremendous gains in size & strength (highly anabolic while lower androgenic properties(.

But these would need to be fairly high dosages to obtain good lean muscle mass & significant increases in strength.

Smaller dosages could benefit a distance runner in terms of better recovery from extremely hard training where an increase in cortisol levels from the stresses of training lowers testosterone levels.

In addition, androgens induce Erythrocytosis which can increase Hct/Hgb 7% -- 10%.

academic.oup.com

Hormonal doping and androgenization of athletes: a secret program of the German Democratic Republic government

Abstract. Several classified documents saved after the collapse of the German Democratic Republic (GDR) in 1990 describe the promotion by the government of the

Link:academic.oup.com/clinchem/article/43/7...

None of the benefits in long-distance mentioned in your post in long distance running are from the linked paper.

Even when evidently (according to the report) female mid-D runners (800m & 1500m) get a benefit from steroids, there is no benefit for males listed in the GDR material even in these distances, and there is likely even less benefit in efforts of longer duration.

The Soviet scientists had an uncontrolled steroid study with their recreational biathletes (?) in the early 1970s, and there was indeed a measured minor increase in Vo2Max.

The females in the GDR and Soviet countries were so great because they were injected testosterone. They were basically biological male at the end of their career.

A lot of speculation in this thread about Cierpinski, no evidence.

To the guy suggesting the did blood doping. That is irrelevant, since it was legal at that time.

I know that Aragon. I'm focusing on Turinabol which is the primary steroid that the GDR was utilizing.

Since intense hard training produces high levels of cortisol in most individuals - which reduces circulating testosterone levels - androgens would raise T levels & speed up recovery.

Since Cierpinski has been implicated in the GDR program for steroids - the question is why would a distance runner, in particular a marathon runner, use steroids. Well...a low dosage would aide in recovery from hard workouts. As long as distance runners aren't lifting heavy weights & eating tons of protein - they're not going to end up looking like bodybuilders - certainly not on a low dose of a single steroid.

Secondly, as I mentioned before, androgens induce Erythrocytosis which can increase Hct/Hgb 7% -- 10%. I've seen this in the gym with some of my fellow bodybuilders who are on TRT. Just on a low dose, they're experiencing an increase in Hct/Hgb & need to get their values checked regularly as part of their TRT program with their doctor.

And what endurance athlete-doper wouldn't want a 7% -- 10% increase in Hct/Hgb?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Testosterone Induces Erythrocytosis via Increased Erythropoietin and Suppressed Hepcidin: Evidence for a New Erythropoietin/Hemoglobin Set Point

The mechanisms by which testosterone increases hemoglobin and hematocrit remain unclear.We assessed the hormonal and hematologic responses to testosterone administration in a clinical trial in which older men with mobility li...

Link:www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4...

Well...if it was legal - why wasn't Shorter blood doping then? 🤔

And no evidence. FFS - Cierpinski was part of the East German Doping Machine.

Yes - it’s indisputable.

That study is from a journal of geriontology about "elderly men [average age 74 years] with low testosterone levels and mobility limitation" therefore everything but obvious that it applies also to 20-30 year old fertile and healthy elite level athletes with normal androgen levels.

There is no "if" here. Blood doping was not prohibited until the mid 80s. I don't know why Shorter didn't do it and it is entirely possible that he did, though I kind of doubt it. There can be negative health consequences which I suspect many athletes would rather not risk.

He most likely blood doped,and may have also taken steroids.I read turinabol was the east german drug of choice.

Despite the GDR performance enhancement programs having been under scrutiny by officials and scholars alike for some three decades, there hasn't emerged any evidence of GDR athletes having blood doped in the 1970s or early 1980s. According to scholar Giselher Spitzer, the GDR athletes used hypoxic tracks and premises instead.

IIRC, Spitzer did have an article in NZZ with allegations of some GDR teams testing blood transfusions around 1987-1989, just before the fall of the regime.

No...Aragon - it does apply to healthy young men.

Granted, a much greater response is seen with the hypogonadal old-timers, but this study shows with the younger demographics (18-35) a ~5% -- 7% increase is seen with Hct/Hgb (dose dependent).

At my gym, I'm friends with 2 powerlifters; ages 32 & 36.(cousins), who are using testosterone therapy (200mg of cypionate every week). Their doctor wants labs done every 3 months & they're seeing their crits going up several points already.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of Graded Doses of Testosterone on Erythropoiesis in Healthy Young and Older Men

Context: Erythrocytosis is a dose-limiting adverse effect of testosterone therapy, especially in older men.Objective: Our objective was to compare the dose-related changes in hemoglobin and hematocrit in young and older men a...

Link:www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2...

outthereoutdoors.com

Was This Man Cheated Out Of An Olympic Medal? Don Kardong and the strange case of East German Athletics

Out There Outdoors

As he raced down the tunnel into the bowels of Olympic Stadium, chasing the East German runner leading the race, it did not matter whether the time gap

Link:outthereoutdoors.com/was-this-man-chea...

"In a 1997 interview with Texas Tech University doctoral student Barbara Carol Cole, Cierpinski responded to the doping allegation, stating, “[As] long distance athletes, we had to prove that we had not taken anything before we left the country. That was a precautionary measure and we readily submitted to it because among us there wasn’t anything.”

"However, in the research studies uncovered by Dr. Franke, it was found that an annual dose of 600mg of Oral-Turinabol was optimal to prevent muscle wasting and promote recovery in marathoners. It also enabled distance runners to handle increasingly greater training loads."

You got it jeff. 👍 A lot of deniers here - same old story when it comes to distance runners on the juice.

The other readers can decide the validity of your emphatic "NO!" if even you must quote a different study and acknowledge that the boost is less in younger vs. elder people. 🙂👍

In any case, the cohort isn't elite level athletes in your second reference, who always have a stimulated erythropoiesis. One should always be skeptical when extrapolating data from healthly males to elite sportspeople, and overall it is interesting that there is surprisingly little data (there is some) to prove elevated Vo2Max with androgen treatment even in recreational athletes.