Time to hire the430miler? He seems to be on top of things.
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tothemoonalice wrote:
Below the Equator wrote:
As someone who is a head cross country coach and assistant track coach, I completely agree with you on this one. Our roster looks very similar to Portland State and we don't go to 20+ different meets to give all these different distance athletes a shot a running fast times or training avenues. We pick 1-2 big indoor meets and 2-3 big outdoor meets to go to and run fast. If you can't run fast at those, that is an individual problem not a team problem. I think that kind of program thinking is what is wrong with track and field. There needs to be more team scored meets and athletes need to learn how to compete. Most of the personal bests that I see from runners is when the are more focused on being competitive than worrying about hitting perfect splits in a time trialed "race".
So the overriding problem (in your opinion), is the fact that over the years the sport of T&F has lost most of it's audience here in the US... and the fact that the athletic scholarship structure established by the NCAA allows teams to specialize in specific event groups within track... because that is really why there aren't more team scored meets.
That's not what I said at all... With the current scholarship structure, you can still have scored meets during the regular season with 10 teams, you could even have scored meets with 4-6 teams as long as they were well rounded. We have roughly 20 distance runners, 10 sprinters, 5 jumpers and 3 throwers. If you have 4 teams that are similar sized but arranged differently, that would be a good scored meet.
The issue is that most coaches don't even worry about regular season scored meets during the year and it's all about running PR's. Also, college athletes worry too much about their TFRRS account looking good. I sometimes will run 5k's at the end of meets as workouts after mile or 1500m races earlier in the day. I do this as a workout instead of running 10k's during the regular season. They get upset because their time won't be as fast and it will make their TFRRS account look bad. I just tell them too bad...
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Below the Equator wrote:
tothemoonalice wrote:
So the overriding problem (in your opinion), is the fact that over the years the sport of T&F has lost most of it's audience here in the US... and the fact that the athletic scholarship structure established by the NCAA allows teams to specialize in specific event groups within track... because that is really why there aren't more team scored meets.
That's not what I said at all... With the current scholarship structure, you can still have scored meets during the regular season with 10 teams, you could even have scored meets with 4-6 teams as long as they were well rounded. We have roughly 20 distance runners, 10 sprinters, 5 jumpers and 3 throwers. If you have 4 teams that are similar sized but arranged differently, that would be a good scored meet.
The issue is that most coaches don't even worry about regular season scored meets during the year and it's all about running PR's. Also, college athletes worry too much about their TFRRS account looking good. I sometimes will run 5k's at the end of meets as workouts after mile or 1500m races earlier in the day. I do this as a workout instead of running 10k's during the regular season. They get upset because their time won't be as fast and it will make their TFRRS account look bad. I just tell them too bad...
You are correct. You didn't say that. I was just editorializing off of your post. Sorry.
My opinion is the reasons no one cares about team competitions anymore are the two I listed. Times, distance, or heights are all that matter now... it's completely a sport of individuals... not teams.
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tothemoonalice wrote:
Below the Equator wrote:
That's not what I said at all... With the current scholarship structure, you can still have scored meets during the regular season with 10 teams, you could even have scored meets with 4-6 teams as long as they were well rounded. We have roughly 20 distance runners, 10 sprinters, 5 jumpers and 3 throwers. If you have 4 teams that are similar sized but arranged differently, that would be a good scored meet.
The issue is that most coaches don't even worry about regular season scored meets during the year and it's all about running PR's. Also, college athletes worry too much about their TFRRS account looking good. I sometimes will run 5k's at the end of meets as workouts after mile or 1500m races earlier in the day. I do this as a workout instead of running 10k's during the regular season. They get upset because their time won't be as fast and it will make their TFRRS account look bad. I just tell them too bad...
You are correct. You didn't say that. I was just editorializing off of your post. Sorry.
My opinion is the reasons no one cares about team competitions anymore are the two I listed. Times, distance, or heights are all that matter now... it's completely a sport of individuals... not teams.
So who should lead the next set of Individuals at PU?
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WSU distance (to my knowledge as I have some contacts at that university) is all being re signed as some of the new staff was just on a 1 year contract initially.
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Below the Equator wrote:
tothemoonalice wrote:
So the overriding problem (in your opinion), is the fact that over the years the sport of T&F has lost most of it's audience here in the US... and the fact that the athletic scholarship structure established by the NCAA allows teams to specialize in specific event groups within track... because that is really why there aren't more team scored meets.
That's not what I said at all... With the current scholarship structure, you can still have scored meets during the regular season with 10 teams, you could even have scored meets with 4-6 teams as long as they were well rounded. We have roughly 20 distance runners, 10 sprinters, 5 jumpers and 3 throwers. If you have 4 teams that are similar sized but arranged differently, that would be a good scored meet.
The issue is that most coaches don't even worry about regular season scored meets during the year and it's all about running PR's. Also, college athletes worry too much about their TFRRS account looking good. I sometimes will run 5k's at the end of meets as workouts after mile or 1500m races earlier in the day. I do this as a workout instead of running 10k's during the regular season. They get upset because their time won't be as fast and it will make their TFRRS account look bad. I just tell them too bad...
This might've been the case for you but at this school I was asked to run random races just to be the 14th person and it resulted in some rough times ending up on my tfrrs and it was just part of the experience
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There is only one answer, I did a deeeeeeep dive here. For us.
- PSU is terrible. They won't get a solid veteran coach due to the budget cuts and salary. So they need either a passionate alumni or a local person who can put the time in and get things back to where Josh had them....
Enter the distance coach at UC Riverside Zach Newsom. He grew up in Portland, ran D1, and has had substantial success in his first two years at UCR. (4 NCAA Track qualifiers)
MIC DROP Someone contact the AD there ASAP and get my name registered.
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Pillow wrote:
xzcvzxvc wrote:
I wonder whether he should have been fired for failing to adhere to this rule, one of many in the NCAA, or another disciplinary step taken, such as mandatory education in NCAA rules, a fine or cut in pay (from very little to less). After all, it was a mistake that cost the program only because his athlete was good enough to qualify and ordinarily you get a certain number of disciplinary strikes in your file at universities and a chance to remedy them before you get fired.
I’m sure they also lost $ from the NCAA for not sponsoring track and field.
$35,000 to be exact
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HelpWANTED wrote:
Rumored to be on the short list for hires:
1. Rhonda - makes sense to promote but not sure she is even on the staff any longer
2. Priscilla Bayley (free agent)
3. Jordan’s LaSavage (Seattle asst)
4. Laura Harmon (asst distance WSU)
5. Shayla Houlihan (asst distance UCSB)
6. Carl Rose (elite sub-elite coach)
Carl Rose is the only one who’d actually take it.
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Razzledazzle wrote:
There is only one answer, I did a deeeeeeep dive here. For us.
- PSU is terrible. They won't get a solid veteran coach due to the budget cuts and salary. So they need either a passionate alumni or a local person who can put the time in and get things back to where Josh had them....
Enter the distance coach at UC Riverside Zach Newsom. He grew up in Portland, ran D1, and has had substantial success in his first two years at UCR. (4 NCAA Track qualifiers)
MIC DROP Someone contact the AD there ASAP and get my name registered.
This is actually a good idea. Newsom would be a very good hire. Probably some other good candidates with Oregon ties, but he is at the top for sure. Someone shot down Chris Reed, but he is also a great coach and Oregonian. Lara Harmon is an Oregonian, so is Rhonda Riley, all good coaches. Lucas Rothenberger if he would leave Cincy is another Oregonian, good coach. I am sure they will get a quality coach and I like this line of thinking. Don't know of PSU alums who are really in the profession and prepared for this job, so go get an Oregonian.
Good luck to whoever takes over. On other threads some saw people bashing the Big Sky, but it is a challenging conference for a mid major.
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I'm sorry that you had to do that. I do feel bad for the athlete that didn't get to run nationals because of a lack of oversight.
I looked at the PSU roster and there was 32 men on the roster for T&F. How can you not get 14 people to meets? Even when there are event limits and you have a distance focused roster 3 in the 400m, 3 in the 800, 3 in the mile, 3 in the 3000m, and 4 guys in the DMR( this would be for indoors). This gives you 16 people, so you have 2 extra for good measure. The team had guys in the throws, jumps, and sprints, so this is crazy that the administration did not bring this to the head coaches attention. I blame the coaches and administration for this. When I first got into coaching and we had a really small team, this was always brought to our attention to ensure we were meeting the minimum requirements so ensure we had met the sports sponsorship requirements.
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I'm seeing lots of mention of Rhonda Riley. I know she was only a volunteer assistant at the time but how complicit was she in this whole debacle? Was she not THE distance coach over the past year? There does not appear to be another distance coach on staff. Athletes left the team in droves, which inclines me to believe she (along with Hepburn) was not well-liked.
That said she was largely responsible for Vanderbilt's success in cross country during her tenure there, so she seems capable enough. I'm just not sure what the dynamic surrounding her is.
For what its worth, Hepburn's profile has been scrubbed from the university athletics site, but all other assistant coaches are still there.
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.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.01 -
Below the Equator wrote:
tothemoonalice wrote:
So the overriding problem (in your opinion), is the fact that over the years the sport of T&F has lost most of it's audience here in the US... and the fact that the athletic scholarship structure established by the NCAA allows teams to specialize in specific event groups within track... because that is really why there aren't more team scored meets.
That's not what I said at all... With the current scholarship structure, you can still have scored meets during the regular season with 10 teams, you could even have scored meets with 4-6 teams as long as they were well rounded. We have roughly 20 distance runners, 10 sprinters, 5 jumpers and 3 throwers. If you have 4 teams that are similar sized but arranged differently, that would be a good scored meet.
The issue is that most coaches don't even worry about regular season scored meets during the year and it's all about running PR's. Also, college athletes worry too much about their TFRRS account looking good. I sometimes will run 5k's at the end of meets as workouts after mile or 1500m races earlier in the day. I do this as a workout instead of running 10k's during the regular season. They get upset because their time won't be as fast and it will make their TFRRS account look bad. I just tell them too bad...
I’m sorry but what?
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rhonda? wrote:
I'm seeing lots of mention of Rhonda Riley. I know she was only a volunteer assistant at the time but how complicit was she in this whole debacle? Was she not THE distance coach over the past year? There does not appear to be another distance coach on staff. Athletes left the team in droves, which inclines me to believe she (along with Hepburn) was not well-liked.
That said she was largely responsible for Vanderbilt's success in cross country during her tenure there, so she seems capable enough. I'm just not sure what the dynamic surrounding her is.
For what its worth, Hepburn's profile has been scrubbed from the university athletics site, but all other assistant coaches are still there.
Dan Goetz is the distance coach. He assisted Rhonda at Duke. So when he got the job at PSU & she was already in the area out of coaching, she agreed to help out as a volunteer. But she had nothing to do with this.
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They can’t afford to pay for meals on the road, let alone pay for better coaches!
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Low-high-medium d!ck and balls wrote:
rhonda? wrote:
I'm seeing lots of mention of Rhonda Riley. I know she was only a volunteer assistant at the time but how complicit was she in this whole debacle? Was she not THE distance coach over the past year? There does not appear to be another distance coach on staff. Athletes left the team in droves, which inclines me to believe she (along with Hepburn) was not well-liked.
That said she was largely responsible for Vanderbilt's success in cross country during her tenure there, so she seems capable enough. I'm just not sure what the dynamic surrounding her is.
For what its worth, Hepburn's profile has been scrubbed from the university athletics site, but all other assistant coaches are still there.
Dan Goetz is the distance coach. He assisted Rhonda at Duke. So when he got the job at PSU & she was already in the area out of coaching, she agreed to help out as a volunteer. But she had nothing to do with this.
Listen here LHMDB- Rhonda had an equitable share with it. She's out just like any other coaching staff that was stained by the head coaches lack of common sense. She was a volunteer and can now go back to selling homes in this robust housing market. Once they hire a new HC the staff will be gone faster than any other staff that had a new HC hired. *Poof*
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So what's up with this thread? (Carl Rose here). I don't know anyone personally at Portland State so I'd be surprised if I'm on their short list. First off - there are a lot of good coaches IN Portland to reach out to but if you are sincere thanks for thinking of me.
Some less randomized names that immediately come to mind are:
Mike Blackmore - Linfield College
David Frank - Central Catholic HS (Rupp's former coach)
The Rundoyen group:There are also some "brand" names on this list:I coach: and a smattering of top age groupers in the Bay Area. I also volunteer for the Pacific Association LDR committee. It's fair to say I fly a little under the radar, but before you slag, please check Strava for hard data on athlete trajectories. This year two women ran low-57s for 10 miles, a guy went high 48s women and two others ran mid/high 1:17 for a half-marathon.They were either former D3 runners or never ran in college, so the development is on point for who we have in the stable. Random fact: I was also co-director for USATF Club Cross Country Nationals in the monsoonal rains last Dec. - quite a mess - but FWIW my name probably popped up after that.
Regardless, I never had any conversations with Portland State. If you are winging it and looking for names, there's a list with some links I've posted. If someone wants to talk to me, I'd listen but I live in NorCal with some family ties to Portland.
You should probably look at that cobbled together list first and start there. Blackmore could be a good get - former Oregon stud too.
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Razzledazzle wrote:
Low-high-medium d!ck and balls wrote:
Dan Goetz is the distance coach. He assisted Rhonda at Duke. So when he got the job at PSU & she was already in the area out of coaching, she agreed to help out as a volunteer. But she had nothing to do with this.
Listen here LHMDB- Rhonda had an equitable share with it. She's out just like any other coaching staff that was stained by the head coaches lack of common sense. She was a volunteer and can now go back to selling homes in this robust housing market. Once they hire a new HC the staff will be gone faster than any other staff that had a new HC hired. *Poof*
Sounds like someone is jealous they aren’t privy to high level info.
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Strawberry Canyon TC coach wrote:
So what's up with this thread? (Carl Rose here). I don't know anyone personally at Portland State so I'd be surprised if I'm on their short list. First off - there are a lot of good coaches IN Portland to reach out to but if you are sincere thanks for thinking of me.
Some less randomized names that immediately come to mind are:
Mike Blackmore - Linfield College
David Frank - Central Catholic HS (Rupp's former coach)
The Rundoyen group:There are also some "brand" names on this list:I coach: and a smattering of top age groupers in the Bay Area. I also volunteer for the Pacific Association LDR committee. It's fair to say I fly a little under the radar, but before you slag, please check Strava for hard data on athlete trajectories. This year two women ran low-57s for 10 miles, a guy went high 48s women and two others ran mid/high 1:17 for a half-marathon.They were either former D3 runners or never ran in college, so the development is on point for who we have in the stable. Random fact: I was also co-director for USATF Club Cross Country Nationals in the monsoonal rains last Dec. - quite a mess - but FWIW my name probably popped up after that.
Regardless, I never had any conversations with Portland State. If you are winging it and looking for names, there's a list with some links I've posted. If someone wants to talk to me, I'd listen but I live in NorCal with some family ties to Portland.
You should probably look at that cobbled together list first and start there. Blackmore could be a good get - former Oregon stud too.
Oh man, you are really not helping your case to be taken seriously.
1:17 half marathoners is a big deal? Come on man.
13
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