Both ran their times against pros, and both had access to high level training info. Only significant difference is the shoes.
Your generation is soft. You need major technology advances to run a fraction of a second faster than your predecessors ran two decades ago, and then you celebrate it as if you’re better. I’d laugh if you weren’t so pathetic.
It's not the shoes, US distance running has just not been that good historically, especially during Rupp's era. I say this as someone from the US.
I don’t disagree about the depth in American distance running, though it’s been better lately. But to pretend the shoes don’t help, both in terms of aiding recovery and running slightly faster is naive. My daughter told me she’s a second faster per lap in the new super shoes. I believe her. Not everyone’s going to get a full second, but many are. I believe Nick Willis thought they were worth 0.6 sec per lap? People are running noticeably faster because of the shoes, be it a Klecker or Kincaid or Fisher. Training and track technology haven’t changed much in 20 years.
I wish we didn’t have the super shoes, but that genie is out of the bottle.
Rupp ran that mark as a high school graduate on the elite pro circuit. Also, by then he was already SaladBar's little science fair project. His advantages pretty much balance out the technological ones enjoyed by Burns. Now sit down before your arthritis acts up and eat your soup, I'm guessing you're a boomer from your resentment of these here newfangled fancy-pants jim-jams the young whippersnappers got on them feets.
Both ran their times against pros, and both had access to high level training info. Only significant difference is the shoes.
Your generation is soft. You need major technology advances to run a fraction of a second faster than your predecessors ran two decades ago, and then you celebrate it as if you’re better. I’d laugh if you weren’t so pathetic.
Well both Rupp and Burns’ times in that case aren’t superior to the real recordholder Gerry Lindgren, who ran 13:44.0 59 years ago on a dirt track in crappy leather shoes. That performance destroys both of them.
Well both Rupp and Burns’ times in that case aren’t superior to the real recordholder Gerry Lindgren, who ran 13:44.0 59 years ago on a dirt track in crappy leather shoes. That performance destroys both of them.
I agree with you. In sprinting, there are adjusted times for wind. I’d love to see adjusted times for distance running based on shoes and tracks.
Well both Rupp and Burns’ times in that case aren’t superior to the real recordholder Gerry Lindgren, who ran 13:44.0 59 years ago on a dirt track in crappy leather shoes. That performance destroys both of them.
I agree with you. In sprinting, there are adjusted times for wind. I’d love to see adjusted times for distance running based on shoes and tracks.
Really? Because several posts ago you called Rupp the “true record holder”. The true record holder is whoever ran the fastest while following the rules in place at the time. It doesn’t mean the best runner, or best prospect, or best whatever. It means the fastest time over a given distance. Congratulations to Connor.
Well both Rupp and Burns’ times in that case aren’t superior to the real recordholder Gerry Lindgren, who ran 13:44.0 59 years ago on a dirt track in crappy leather shoes. That performance destroys both of them.
Lindgren actually forgot his racing boots for that meet and competed in an old pair of wooden Dutch Clogs.
Seriously, congratulations to Burns. He's been making a lot of trips to fast races, where he's really been going for it, but continually coming up just short. His efforts have made the races fast and he's willing to do a lot of pace making. I'm happy to see him get a victory/record for his efforts!
I agree with you. In sprinting, there are adjusted times for wind. I’d love to see adjusted times for distance running based on shoes and tracks.
Really? Because several posts ago you called Rupp the “true record holder”. The true record holder is whoever ran the fastest while following the rules in place at the time. It doesn’t mean the best runner, or best prospect, or best whatever. It means the fastest time over a given distance. Congratulations to Connor.
Nuberboy made a convincing point that changed my mind. Society would be better if more people were open minded enough to have their opinions changed when presented with facts and sound reasoning.
Provo's NCAA altitude conversions are roughly 4.9 (4.92 for a 4:10 mile) and 11.5 seconds (12.32 for a 9:19 steeple), putting him at 4:02.6 and 8:38. That is a very, very good double. He does have sub-4 potential this year and a shot at breaking 8:30 as well after that 8:34. Next year, he might well be on the record watch.
It's not the shoes, US distance running has just not been that good historically, especially during Rupp's era. I say this as someone from the US.
I don’t disagree about the depth in American distance running, though it’s been better lately. But to pretend the shoes don’t help, both in terms of aiding recovery and running slightly faster is naive. My daughter told me she’s a second faster per lap in the new super shoes. I believe her. Not everyone’s going to get a full second, but many are. I believe Nick Willis thought they were worth 0.6 sec per lap? People are running noticeably faster because of the shoes, be it a Klecker or Kincaid or Fisher. Training and track technology haven’t changed much in 20 years.
I wish we didn’t have the super shoes, but that genie is out of the bottle.
Just in my own experience, I've met several who did not get magically faster after buying super shoes. In college, I met a guy who bought super spikes mid-season and ran within a second of his SB in the 800 three times but never broke his SB. By super shoe logic he got 2 seconds slower. The fastest times at many events, especially the 15, also haven't improved since superspikes were released, so the depth in the 15 has just gotten much worse right after the release of super shoes.
My point is, the resurgence of US distance running is not super shoes, it just seems a lot better because the US has sucked at distance events for so long. What we're seeing now is the result of a 10 year trend of improvement at all age groups.
A serious attempt at the HS10000m record seems overdo.
Yep, the challenge in going after Chapa, is that he identified the 10k as a longshot chance to make '76 Olympics. That meant he both trained for it and ran a series of let's say 6 10ks in '76 as part of his prep.
Today's 5k/xc guys could try a 10k, but it would probably be a one-off in June and it would not have been their training focus.
fool ? the point is still fair. the twins shouldn't be elevated above the rest of their class when nothing they have done this year is heads-and-shoulders above guys like Burns, Hansen, Birnbaum, Gorze, Sahlman etc. Maybe an argument can be made for Leo's U-20 cross performances, but idk after tonight
Leo’s XC performances plus his 3:39 make him look like a sub 13:30 guy waiting to happen
Both ran their times against pros, and both had access to high level training info. Only significant difference is the shoes.
Your generation is soft. You need major technology advances to run a fraction of a second faster than your predecessors ran two decades ago, and then you celebrate it as if you’re better. I’d laugh if you weren’t so pathetic.
Well both Rupp and Burns’ times in that case aren’t superior to the real recordholder Gerry Lindgren, who ran 13:44.0 59 years ago on a dirt track in crappy leather shoes. That performance destroys both of them.
Lindgren led for 12 laps before being outkicked by the 1964 Olympic champion to be in the 5000. The world record was 13:35 when Gerry ran 13:44.
Well both Rupp and Burns’ times in that case aren’t superior to the real recordholder Gerry Lindgren, who ran 13:44.0 59 years ago on a dirt track in crappy leather shoes. That performance destroys both of them.
Lindgren led for 12 laps before being outkicked by the 1964 Olympic champion to be in the 5000. The world record was 13:35 when Gerry ran 13:44.
Yep. Gerry’s first ever 5K race. And the only 5K race he did in high school that wasn’t in stifling hot weather. Run on a clay track in Compton, California on the same night Jim Ryun became the first high school boy ever to break four minutes in a mile. Both wore crappy old-school shoes with non-removable spikes.
WE hear so much about Lex and Leo, but their are kids out there who are just as good if not better like Connor. The American HS track scene is the best it has ever been!
Hard to argue with trackfangirl. A lot of hype, not a lot of records. Wejo's exact words about Newbury Park were: "Rewote the high school record books." They did get one very obscure record, namely indoor 4×1 mile. But none of them could get Rupp's 5000 record. They - and by 'they' I include alumni - still haven't touched Chapa's 10000 record. Newbury was good at getting the attention of the media...better than they are/were at running, in fact. There are objectively better current high school runners. Let's see if any NP alumni get under Chapa's time prior to leaving the NCAA. Hasn't happened yet.
Both ran their times against pros, and both had access to high level training info. Only significant difference is the shoes.
Your generation is soft. You need major technology advances to run a fraction of a second faster than your predecessors ran two decades ago, and then you celebrate it as if you’re better. I’d laugh if you weren’t so pathetic.
I love this bc Rupp is probably the only high schooler ever that you can’t make this argument for lmao
Hard to argue with trackfangirl. A lot of hype, not a lot of records. Wejo's exact words about Newbury Park were: "Rewote the high school record books." They did get one very obscure record, namely indoor 4×1 mile. But none of them could get Rupp's 5000 record. They - and by 'they' I include alumni - still haven't touched Chapa's 10000 record. Newbury was good at getting the attention of the media...better than they are/were at running, in fact. There are objectively better current high school runners. Let's see if any NP alumni get under Chapa's time prior to leaving the NCAA. Hasn't happened yet.
nico broke the 3k record, Lex ran .1 off it last year. No one else has won NXN since 2018. Technically they ran the fastest XC times ever, and Nico and Aaron set NXN records. They were also getting hype bc as sophomores they were running faster than Nico did as a senior, and they’ve been running times like 3:39, 3:56, 1:48, 7:56, 13:43, 13:50.
They’ll have their chance at the 5k record. Right now, Connor Burns has the record, and has run 3:58(junior)/13:37 in high school (better PRs than Rupp), and he’s headed to Oregon to train under Jerry Schumacher aka the marginally less problematic Alberto Salazar. Every record holder since the 60s has had a great career, so based on that he’s probably gonna end up taking an Olympic W in 2028. I’m looking forward to see what he does in the mile next :)
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