NATALIE COOK TO COLORADO BOULDER

The poster could have meant National Champions too but I'm guessing they're referring to Jenny Simpson World champion in the 2011 1500m and Emma Coburns 2017 Steeple WC.

Valid point either way. NAU has never had a women's team or individual National Champion.

Wetmore/CU has many over many eras.

Granted it was long ago, prior to the Mike Smith era, but Johanna Nilsson won some individual D1 titles, including xc.

Should add her sister Ida as well, she won a couple of track titles.

Probably the usual, i.e. Dave Smith.

Glad the thread clarified it's Colorado Boulder, would have had no idea what school it was otherwise

Dave Smith is an excellent coach, I really don't know where you guys get the idea that he isn't

Indeed, excellent coach currently and historically.

.....Could be the criticism comes from lingering feelings from his rough patch from 6 or so years ago when his men's squad suffered discontent and injuries and quite a few blue chips quit.

The combined men's amd women's combined program in the NCAA

Yeah, I don't see the hate, either. It's how she decommitted that makes her untouchable, she did so right before (or possibly after) she was supposed to be on campus at CU for early season training. By doing that, she forced CU to basically leave that amount of scholarship (I'm assuming full ride) on the shelf. Sure, Wetmore could have split that up among athletes who were currently on the team, but it also meant it couldn't have been used to recruit another runner or two to the program for that season. That's a pretty significant breach of trust. And for what? She turned down being on a team of great athletes under great coaching because she was so under the sway of her coach(es) back home. That's a red flag for some not insignificant psychological factors that render her a wild card and her word undependable. As coaches, they could never fully trust her communication after she did that, regardless of the justifications. I do wonder how disillusioned that left Billy Nelson as head recruiter and if that incident might have earned some harsh rebuke from Wetmore and Burroughs, possibly hastening his exit.

Road bike all summer to train for xc and then cross country ski in winter to train for track. Shorter did a lot of xc skiing as cross training

Every Parker valby thread turns into a convo about Katelyn tuohy

every doping bust thread turns into a convo about Shelby Houlihan

let's not turn a thread about Natalie into a thread about Addy Wiley.

I'm curious about this choice. Mark Wetmore's training is no joke, and not a ton of cross training involved.

Well, Wetmore did use Dr. Brown....

Agreed on your first point, thank John Wesley Einstein for that.

I think a lot of people think Goucher's training under Wetmore as detailed in RWTB is the status quo. I think we've seen him (and his assistants) learn and adapt to individuals, at least top talents like Cook. Ritz was notably injured at CU, but he also came back from injury and must have been cross-training a lot leading up to his 2003 xc win. Only time will tell, there have been some precocious talents that have crashed and burned in Boulder over the years.

A talented, oft-injured athlete who relies on cross training to supplement her limited run training will be able to markedly increase her aerobic abilities without increasing her training simply by living at altitude. She's already on the shelf. How could this possibly hurt?

He was also known to a lot of biking, particularly as he got older. Not to derail, but I saw a video interview with him not long ago and he looks like he's still in great shape and a lot younger than most his age. He said he is still pretty active and still puts in some miles but usually alternates running/jogging with walking when he "runs."

The speculative how is that she'll be forced to run even less because it is harder to recover. At this point, I doubt it's her general aerobic ability that is limiting her, it's low (for her level) running specific training. It's pretty much accepted, I believe, that you can't bike or swim or ski your way to being your best at running.

Here is a quote from the below article:

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Even if you dismiss all these concerns, it’s still well-known that some people respond well to altitude training, while others don’t. In the 1997 study, they divided the results of their 39 subjects into 17 responders, who improved their 5,000-meter times by an average 36.6 seconds; 7 neutral responders, who didn’t see any significant change; and 15 non-responders, who actually got slower by an average of 24.0 seconds. As Siebenmann points out, that’s not a non-response, it’s a negative response. And if you’re an elite athlete,
17 out of 39 doesn’t seem like great odds.

_____

Altitude training is notoriously hit or miss. Now this might be different for someone living permanently at altitude, but in the above study 17 improved and 15 actually got worse. A coin toss.

If I was forced to bet, I would put money on altitude being a net negative for Cook, but again, 5000 ft is not really that high so effect either way will probably be small.

outsideonline.com

The Skeptic’s Take on Altitude Training

mmirhashem

Pretty much every elite endurance athlete trains in mountain air or the altitude-tent equivalent. But a few scientists think they're wasting their time and money.

Open link

Family move, could be. Coaching, teammates, terrain, altitude, Boulder scene, history of Olympians, pro coaching post college are all potential reasons.

One aspect you folks haven't touched on is simply the nature of the recruiting process. You will note that class of 2024 recruits are already verbally commiting NOW. That means Junior state and national times plus entire senior year are not included in coach's offer. In Cook's case when she committed to osu, she was about the #30 national distance recruit. By the time she arrived in Stillwater she was the #1 recruit with double national xc wins and her 15:25 track 5k record. So quite simply, she now had a chance to re-open her recruitment as #1 in class of '26.

As #1 recruit, she gets treated better than when she was #30. All the top schools are interested. Appears she went on official visits to at least CU, UCLA and UW. Perhaps CU was even her dream school in high school, but they had no money for her as a #30 recruit. Surprise, after 7th at ncaa xc, they do now.

The new transfer rules allow her to simply re-open recruitment, select a winner and transfer without sitting out. This can be a real penalty to the coach who identifies a diamond in the rough (the notorious low mileage, perfect form, indestructible joints, strong work ethic) and coaches them up. Without personal loyalty, they can just leave now when they get good!

Barnett and Frias were similar to Cook. None of the 3 were really coached up, but they all improved dramatically as hs seniors compared to when they signed with Duke and UVA. Both Barnett and Frias also went from around the #30 spot at recruitment to top 5 by freshman college indoor (4:36 mile, acc freshman of the year xc).

Lastly on CU injuries, Wetmore has always shown he is eager to learn. Over the last 5 years, CU has navigated injuries to Lalo Herrera, Jones, Scholl, Boreman and Hurta with pool running and elliptical etc. I'm sure they will be open minded and similarly careful with Cook.

I, too, make conclusions based on uninformed speculation and 25 year-old literature.

No, it’s just your speculation, and you don’t have a clue, so shut up already.