Actually, Substation Goe was training at our high school track in Illinois and living with our coach in 1987, trying to get fit to make the 1988 British Olympic team. One workout, much to our dismay, that our coach picked up from him was 4 sets of 5 x 200. First set 60 sec. rest, 2nd set 45, 3rd set 30, and 4th set 15. No rest between sets, and we were obliged to either keep the initial pace AND try to speed up. I don't remember exactly, but I think Mr. Goe ran them around 26/27. What a gut buster, but also such an adrenaline rush!
I wonder how many guys like Watcke, a 47.5 400m runner and distance guy, could similarly be trained up to the Ovett level, where currently they are well behind 49-51 second 400m guys at the mile and up. The 200 workouts with very little rest that Ovett did seem excellent for extending the endurance of milers with a lot of speed, though not suited really for fast times at 3k and up.
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O.P., you are looking at Steve Ovett incorrectly. Steve Ovett was best suited for 800m. He trained for 1500m & 1 mile because he was a Brit. If Steve Ovett grew up in then East Germany or then Soviet Union, those nations would have had Ovett training as a lower mileage 800m man. Steve Ovett has a very good 800m Olympic record: 5th, 1st & 8th. If S Ovett would have focused on 800m, his 800m personal best would have been much faster, very close to or faster than S Coe's 800m time and S Ovett would have had a bit more Olympic 800m success if he would have been a lower mileage 800m man.
The inter counties wasn’t the trial race for world cross back then. And certainly not for the British team because there wasn’t one in world cross. The National was the selection race for the England team for world cross.
Correct on English v British World X-country team.
The Nationals was the trial race for many years, but it proved counter-productive being a tough 9 mile race shortly before the Worlds.
It was then switched to the Inter-Counties, earlier in the season and at the less demanding distance of 7 1/2 miles.
I actually ran the Inter-Counties on more than one occasion in that era, and at time ran in the same races as Steve Ovett (and Sebastian Coe), although I can't dignify what I did as "ran against."
The intercounties became the trial race way after Ovett won the inter counties. I believe Ovett won in 1970s. It was years after that the intercounties became the trial. And it certainly didn't work. Look at England's record when using the National compared to when they switched to the intercounties. Not much comparison although there are other factors. Obviously, neither was the trial this year.
O.P., you are looking at Steve Ovett incorrectly. Steve Ovett was best suited for 800m. He trained for 1500m & 1 mile because he was a Brit. If Steve Ovett grew up in then East Germany or then Soviet Union, those nations would have had Ovett training as a lower mileage 800m man. Steve Ovett has a very good 800m Olympic record: 5th, 1st & 8th. If S Ovett would have focused on 800m, his 800m personal best would have been much faster, very close to or faster than S Coe's 800m time and S Ovett would have had a bit more Olympic 800m success if he would have been a lower mileage 800m man.
If my mum had a dick she would be my dad. There is literally no way to prove or disprove this theory but by your maths if Lydiard would have trained Snell like Mu or Hodgkinson he could have run 1.39! Utter tripe.
You are not of sound mind. Against my better judgement I will still respond. Of course we can look at the evidence. Look at all the over distance training Steve Ovett did in his late twenties, attempting to be a 1500m/5000m man. It did not work. Steve Ovett was clearly worse at 5000m. compared to 1500m & 1 mile. Look at S Ovett's international medals, mostly 800m medals. Look at Steve Ovett's natural 200m & 400m sprinting speed from his early teens. Clearly he was a natural 800m man. British mile racing is tied to Great Britain's longer history of thoroughbred horsing racing. What is the normal range of thoroughbred races? Usually (3/4 to 15/16) of a mile turf races and 1 mile to 1 1/2 mile races on dirt, thus G.B.'s love for the mile.
O.P., you are looking at Steve Ovett incorrectly. Steve Ovett was best suited for 800m. He trained for 1500m & 1 mile because he was a Brit. If Steve Ovett grew up in then East Germany or then Soviet Union, those nations would have had Ovett training as a lower mileage 800m man. Steve Ovett has a very good 800m Olympic record: 5th, 1st & 8th. If S Ovett would have focused on 800m, his 800m personal best would have been much faster, very close to or faster than S Coe's 800m time and S Ovett would have had a bit more Olympic 800m success if he would have been a lower mileage 800m man.
Why did Ovett decide to move up (or focus primarily) on the 1500 after Montreal? Was it the British media calling him a flop for only finishing 5th in the 800? Perhaps he thought El Cabello and Ivo Van Damme would own the 800 for the next few years?
Looking back, finishing 5th in the 800 Olympic final was a huge achievement for somebody his age, especially given he made the mistake of going out too slow with the first 300m in lanes and him running 'blind' on the outside lane. I agree that if he continued to focus on the 800m, he would have been sub 1:42. He was certainly close to 1:42 shape in Moscow, training primarily as a 1500m runner.
You are not of sound mind. Against my better judgement I will still respond. Of course we can look at the evidence. Look at all the over distance training Steve Ovett did in his late twenties, attempting to be a 1500m/5000m man. It did not work. Steve Ovett was clearly worse at 5000m. compared to 1500m & 1 mile. Look at S Ovett's international medals, mostly 800m medals. Look at Steve Ovett's natural 200m & 400m sprinting speed from his early teens. Clearly he was a natural 800m man. British mile racing is tied to Great Britain's longer history of thoroughbred horsing racing. What is the normal range of thoroughbred races? Usually (3/4 to 15/16) of a mile turf races and 1 mile to 1 1/2 mile races on dirt, thus G.B.'s love for the mile.
He was 30 years old (31 in October) when he moved up the 5000m in 1986, clearly already almost shot as a 1500m runner, after that railing accident and the physical trauma of LA in 84. He had a couple of good 1500m wins in 1985, but he was clearly already past his best at that point, and lost a few 1500m races to scrubs he would normally look back waving at. Yet in 86 he loooked in WR shape in destroying Jack Buckner and Tim Hutchings, who were world class, and Buckner would win the European Championships in 13:10, just weeks after being humiliated by Ovett who looked in a different class altogether. He ran 13:25 and gave Yifter a race in borrowed trainers in one of his first attempts at 5000m in 1977 when he had only 'moved up' to the 1500m from the 800m that winter. I don't disagree that he could have ran a lot faster over 800m if had chosen to remain an 800m focused athlete, but at the same time, he could clearly have destroyed the 5000m WR at his peak if he had spent a year or two focusing on that distance. He was more naturally versatile than Aouita by far.
O.P., you are looking at Steve Ovett incorrectly. Steve Ovett was best suited for 800m. He trained for 1500m & 1 mile because he was a Brit. If Steve Ovett grew up in then East Germany or then Soviet Union, those nations would have had Ovett training as a lower mileage 800m man. Steve Ovett has a very good 800m Olympic record: 5th, 1st & 8th. If S Ovett would have focused on 800m, his 800m personal best would have been much faster, very close to or faster than S Coe's 800m time and S Ovett would have had a bit more Olympic 800m success if he would have been a lower mileage 800m man.
Why did Ovett decide to move up (or focus primarily) on the 1500 after Montreal? Was it the British media calling him a flop for only finishing 5th in the 800? Perhaps he thought El Cabello and Ivo Van Damme would own the 800 for the next few years?
Looking back, finishing 5th in the 800 Olympic final was a huge achievement for somebody his age, especially given he made the mistake of going out too slow with the first 300m in lanes and him running 'blind' on the outside lane. I agree that if he continued to focus on the 800m, he would have been sub 1:42. He was certainly close to 1:42 shape in Moscow, training primarily as a 1500m runner.
El Cabello means "The Hair". It would have also been appropriate, but his nickname was El Caballo, "The Horse".
Why did Ovett decide to move up (or focus primarily) on the 1500 after Montreal? Was it the British media calling him a flop for only finishing 5th in the 800? Perhaps he thought El Cabello and Ivo Van Damme would own the 800 for the next few years?
Looking back, finishing 5th in the 800 Olympic final was a huge achievement for somebody his age, especially given he made the mistake of going out too slow with the first 300m in lanes and him running 'blind' on the outside lane. I agree that if he continued to focus on the 800m, he would have been sub 1:42. He was certainly close to 1:42 shape in Moscow, training primarily as a 1500m runner.
El Cabello means "The Hair". It would have also been appropriate, but his nickname was El Caballo, "The Horse".
Athletes I work with do. 4 x 400m splits, race simulations, 5 x 3 x 400m (30sec rest) and 2mins set break, 6+ x 1000m off 30 sec, 'sprint' sessions, etc....
You are not of sound mind. Against my better judgement I will still respond. Of course we can look at the evidence. Look at all the over distance training Steve Ovett did in his late twenties, attempting to be a 1500m/5000m man. It did not work. Steve Ovett was clearly worse at 5000m. compared to 1500m & 1 mile. Look at S Ovett's international medals, mostly 800m medals. Look at Steve Ovett's natural 200m & 400m sprinting speed from his early teens. Clearly he was a natural 800m man. British mile racing is tied to Great Britain's longer history of thoroughbred horsing racing. What is the normal range of thoroughbred races? Usually (3/4 to 15/16) of a mile turf races and 1 mile to 1 1/2 mile races on dirt, thus G.B.'s love for the mile.
He was 30 years old (31 in October) when he moved up the 5000m in 1986, clearly already almost shot as a 1500m runner, after that railing accident and the physical trauma of LA in 84. He had a couple of good 1500m wins in 1985, but he was clearly already past his best at that point, and lost a few 1500m races to scrubs he would normally look back waving at. Yet in 86 he loooked in WR shape in destroying Jack Buckner and Tim Hutchings, who were world class, and Buckner would win the European Championships in 13:10, just weeks after being humiliated by Ovett who looked in a different class altogether. He ran 13:25 and gave Yifter a race in borrowed trainers in one of his first attempts at 5000m in 1977 when he had only 'moved up' to the 1500m from the 800m that winter. I don't disagree that he could have ran a lot faster over 800m if had chosen to remain an 800m focused athlete, but at the same time, he could clearly have destroyed the 5000m WR at his peak if he had spent a year or two focusing on that distance. He was more naturally versatile than Aouita by far.
He said that he lost some of his kick after the railing incident. In addition, although it's not well-publicized his efforts in the LA Olympics while suffering from bronchitis, did damage which militated against him doing training for 800m/1500m with the same intensity.
It's remarkable to think that the Ovett who easily defeated two world-class 5000m runners in the Commonwealth Games two years later, was already some way past his peak.
As far as his best distance being 800m, that is highly unlikely. It's inconceivable that someone who could run as well as Ovett did x-country races at 7 1/2 to 9 miles, and on road up to a half-marathon, would be best at 800m.
Incidentally, there is a funny anecdote about his 1977 5000m debut at age 22, when he finished second to Yifter. The borrowed shows were a pair of spikes about a size small, and belonging to Bernie Ford (who also ran in the race). Ovett finished second, ahead of Dave Black and Bernie Ford - two of Britain's top distances runners - and told the notoriously speed-deficient Ford "that's the fastest those shoes will ever run a last 200m."
O.P., you are looking at Steve Ovett incorrectly. Steve Ovett was best suited for 800m. He trained for 1500m & 1 mile because he was a Brit. If Steve Ovett grew up in then East Germany or then Soviet Union, those nations would have had Ovett training as a lower mileage 800m man. Steve Ovett has a very good 800m Olympic record: 5th, 1st & 8th. If S Ovett would have focused on 800m, his 800m personal best would have been much faster, very close to or faster than S Coe's 800m time and S Ovett would have had a bit more Olympic 800m success if he would have been a lower mileage 800m man.
If my mum had a dick she would be my dad. There is literally no way to prove or disprove this theory but by your maths if Lydiard would have trained Snell like Mu or Hodgkinson he could have run 1.39! Utter tripe.
While I like your analogy, that could actually happen these days so I'm not sure if the comparison is valid. But I agree with you that we have no way of knowing at all whether with low mileage training he would have been faster or slower. It's just all a guess. People respond differently to training; that's why it's individualised. Anyway, I'm sure Ovet tried lots of different approaches at various points in his career and decided that he responded best to higher mileage training for whatever reason.
How is school system set up in Great Britain? Are all the kids together K through 8th grade then some go to vocational schools, 9th through 12th grade and others go to pre-college 9th through 12th schools?
* It is fair to assume, K through 8th grade, Ovett would have destroyed Coe, 60 yard dash through 1/2 mile run.
* We can all agree 9th grade through 12 grade, Ovett would have defeated Coe, 60 yard dash through 1/2 mile run.
* We can all agree past teenage years Coe began closing the sprinting speed gap.
* Coe did not close the gap, sprints to 800m because Coe was genetically superior to Ovett.
* Coe did not close the gap, sprints to 800m because Coe trained harder than Ovett.
Coe closed the gap, sprints to 800m because Coe focused on low mileage speed development with cross-training while Ovett was slogging 120 miles per week. One-hundred-twenty miles per week does next to nothing for 60 yard to 440 yard sprint speed development and actually makes one slower as a sprinter.
You all can love Ovett and his achievements but also realize his 120 plus miles per week hurt his 800m development.
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