UW Crapped the Bed in the Penn 4 x Mile - Villanova wins as top 6 teams all run 16:14

The 1-4-5-8 indoors I really don’t think is replicable by many contemporary teams. If you want to say historically, sure. We’ll see what happens at NCAAs because that matters than a rainy 4xmile

If anyone crap the bed it was Oklahoma State. They loaded up the men’s and women’s races and still 0 Penn Relay titles since 1954.

Yes it is hard to rabbit every leg if you are UW but that is what you HAVE to do when you have a team like this.

Bank on your strength and depth and don’t make it a kickers race. Run :59.0 from the gun and kick at the end and outlast every other team. Sure you might get out kicked on one of the legs but you have to believe no other team can grind that pace for 16 laps

Most teams wouldn't enter 6 dudes in the same race because it's bad strategy. If you have 3 great milers, train the rest for either the 800 or the 3k.

The 8th place guy (Fay) could have gotten more than 1 point if he trained for and raced the 3k fresh. Green in 5th place ran 1:46 in his ONLY indoor 800m, ranking him 15th in the NCAA without even training for it or racing it twice.

Texas going 1-2 in the 800 is much more impressive, especially considering they had a 1:45 runner (Jonathan Jones) focusing on the 400 to maximize points.

Certainly there was some novelty to it, and let's not act like they were likely to win the team title. They made a choice to try to dominate the NCAA indoor mile final because it motivated them obviously. 1-4-5-8 is pretty dang good. The Nathan Green thing he ran 1:46.99 on their 309m indoor track, but he is not an 800m runner at least in his/Powell's estimation. 3:52.76 is better than 1:46.99, regardless of how the NCAA stacks up this year (and the 800 is pretty weak). You can disagree with that, but it is not his primary event at this juncture, and when he raced it at Pac 12s last year he finished 5th. Fay I agree you can quibble with him not just racing the DMR anchor and 3000 double. But they obviously had other goals.

Not sure why Texas gets credit for Jonathan Jones who apparently DNS'ed at the 400? He's also a better and more accomplished 400m guy at this stage, who should be focusing on that event anyway. He's 24, and I'm not quite sure I get the fascination with the 800 unless there's something he's showing in practice to think he's got some Emmanuel Korir-esque ability moving up.

For outdoors I'd spread the talent around 800, 1500, 3ksteeple, 5k, 10k. Test them in training and throughout the racing season. See if any stand out in different areas. 2 per event, 18 points each event possible.

If Green could run 1:46.99 in his first 800 of the year, he probably could have run at least 1:46.20 if he ran it again (which would have made him the #3 seed). His mile strength would have benefit being fresher in the final from prelims relative to 400/800 runners.

You realize that Jones being 24 makes him younger than 5 of the UW runners that you cherish? He was 2nd in the 800 at 2022 indoor NCAAs. He was DQ'd in the 400.

I don’t cherish UW as much as you seem to hate them for some reason. Nobody’s arguing that Green couldn’t have made the 800 field. The argument is if he’d a) survive a cutthroat prelim b) finish higher than 5th or where he hoped to finish.
The Jones age comment was in reference to where he stands as an athlete. He has better times and credentials in the 400, and the 800 is more a matter of intrigue because NCAA runners are typically much better at the 400 than 800. So, a 1:45 pops more than a 44-high or 45-low even though it is inferior. He ran 44.6 in 2019, for what it’s worth.

EDIT: Let’s also not pretend the Texas 1-2 didn’t have a DQ of the second best guy in the field (at worst)

Murthy’s last lap was crazy. He ran the entire thing in lane 2. I had him at about 53 for the last 400 and 25ish the last 200. Worth at least a 52, maybe 51 in lane 1 in better conditions. Bodes well for regionals and nationals. Not many people can drop a 53 in lane 2 like that.

That said, the 4xmile was a major disappointment. But it does answer the question of which would you rather have, a gold medal or the record? Clearly the teams wanted the medal, not the record. After all they can't take the medal away, but the can break your record.

Murphy could have won the NCAA mile. He ran 3:55 after going through 809m in 2:00 flat and didn’t really turn it on until the end of the last lap.

Unfortunately, he sat out the mile to run the DMR, where Villanova was taken out of the race in the first leg by a pole vaulter who was lining up on the track.

You can't get the record without getting the gold medal too, right?

I do think one dynamic that exists amongst college runners is a complete fear of frontrunning. Sure being really good helps, but look at Leo Manzano here. Not to say, the average 3:55 anchor leg can do that, but there're a couple routes you can do instead of jogging or running PR pace (and dying) if you get the lead on the anchor. Why not run a few 60-61s controlling the pace, letting others jockey (or run hard to catch you), and squeezing it down? I know easier said than done, but reducing it to all-out kicks is a tough strategy for the leg that gets it first.

63 points at conferences from the 800, 1500, Steeple, 5K and 10K. Big 40 from sweeping the titles of each one...Seems good, and they won Pac-12s.

I totally agree with your assessment on Murphy

right this minute he is one of the top three deadliest kickers out there at 1500

he split 1:47.8 at Big East

and 56.03 in tactical 5k pr win

I saw that