Blaze Orange wrote:
What did Joanie run at age 59?
Joanie ran Boston at age 57 in 2:54 and a couple minutes faster the two years prior.
-
40
-
This quoted post has been removed.
Looks like she was tested in 2018, and presumably passed.
110 -
oregon oldtimer wrote:
I’m 62 and started using TRT crème (100 mg/day) about 2 years ago. Did it for sleep related issued. My T was below, and/or at the very bottom of, normal for my age and is now in the upper range of normal. Sleep quality is much improved (finally) and my Hb is 16.5-17.0 g/dL (Hct 50%). I run just so that I can keep from getting fat and old; however, quality sleep and a high Hb make life a lot more enjoyable. Costs $59 month and I monitor my T about every 6 months. Under direction of a physician.
Aren't you worried about it destroying your natural testosterone production? I'm 59 and have thought about it but decided against it and just decided to try to naturally increase testosterone (mainly by lifting heavy, eating certain foods and avoiding alcohol) because I didn't want to become dependent on a drug after the natural pathways shut down. Also, there appears to be an increased risk of prostate cancer and heart attack.
260 -
I am thinking that was at CIM.
And word has it that she was super pissed about being tested.
161 -
And London, like other marathons, probably does not test masters unless there is money involved.
All we have here is a wanna be elite runner using her performance to fish for likes and compliments on social media. It is sad. But to each their own.
102 -
NorCal Distance Stud wrote:
I am thinking that was at CIM.
And word has it that she was super pissed about being tested.
Like earlier posts...if it were announced that testing were going to happen, you wash out before the test. the docs tell you how long the 1/2 life is. the drugs work for recovery from training so you can put in the work so going off for a couple of weeks doesn't hinder performance.
the only way dopers are caught are from random out of competition testing. the ones busted at competition testing are just careless.
182 -
Lookslike a duck wrote:
Coyote Montane wrote:
Not necessarily.
Now I'm a comparative two-bit nobody/has been that never was, but didn't slow much at the range of 8K to half marathon from my late 40s to early 60s (my mile and 3K did slow by a lot). Have run and raced most years since my late teen, peaking ca. age 30. Age 50 best 10K was 35:45, and at 59 I ran 2 seconds faster on the same course. Ran fastest half in 20 years at age 61 [these before super shoes].
Hitchings does compete at USATF masters races (ran the 10 mile just 3 weeks ago) and those do have some drug testing. I do wish there was more, as well as some out of competition testing.
Some people do age better than the norm, and if you account for training, super-shoes, etc. you do get masters runners doing amazing things, and doing it cleanly.
Interesting. Did you work to improve all of those years or were you in and out of serious training?
Testing at races is pretty useless if it is announced it will happen. Dopers are smart enough to stop in time to not be detected and the big effect is being able to recover in training. So stopping a couple of weeks before a race won’t hurt performance.
It's somewhat convoluted, discussed some years back in more detail in the 50+ Masters thread. Ran my last PR at 33, so a long time ago, but from 35-45 I was injured more than not (just three healthy years in that span, moderate mileage at the time 40s-50s mostly). Once I got healthy I upped the volume but less emphasis on speed work (5K and faster) because that's what would get me injured. Improved my diet, and kids grew up so had more time after age 55 so instead of going backwards my times stabilized and even improved some up until age 61. Now mid-60s and sort of back sliding but keeping up with age grade curves.
I do know most of the top runners in the 60s age bracket, and those at the very top are either lifers like me, ran in college and post-college but were not superstars/pros, more like sub-elite. There are a few late onset runners that picked it up in their mid-late 50s and they do seem to recover better and race more. I don't think drug use is high, contrary to some armchair "experts" here, most of whom don't even run at these races, but I'm sure it happens, e.g., Kevin Castille.
201 -
Coyote Montane wrote:
Lookslike a duck wrote:
Interesting. Did you work to improve all of those years or were you in and out of serious training?
Testing at races is pretty useless if it is announced it will happen. Dopers are smart enough to stop in time to not be detected and the big effect is being able to recover in training. So stopping a couple of weeks before a race won’t hurt performance.
It's somewhat convoluted, discussed some years back in more detail in the 50+ Masters thread. Ran my last PR at 33, so a long time ago, but from 35-45 I was injured more than not (just three healthy years in that span, moderate mileage at the time 40s-50s mostly). Once I got healthy I upped the volume but less emphasis on speed work (5K and faster) because that's what would get me injured. Improved my diet, and kids grew up so had more time after age 55 so instead of going backwards my times stabilized and even improved some up until age 61. Now mid-60s and sort of back sliding but keeping up with age grade curves.
I do know most of the top runners in the 60s age bracket, and those at the very top are either lifers like me, ran in college and post-college but were not superstars/pros, more like sub-elite. There are a few late onset runners that picked it up in their mid-late 50s and they do seem to recover better and race more. I don't think drug use is high, contrary to some armchair "experts" here, most of whom don't even run at these races, but I'm sure it happens, e.g., Kevin Castille.
Good for you man. I'm 60 and I feel awesome. No TRT. Some people just age better than others.
TRT isn't going to change this, but vanity doesn't see reason and the amount of people doing it is only going to increase.
61 -
A wild outlier is a big red flag. Castille was a pretty obvious example of this. You could say "Well, Lagat ran 13:05 at 40", but what ridiculous comparison to a local road racer because he was an active pro and even he was declining. In this case Joan Benoit Samuelson is a reasonable comparison because she was world class and slowly declined and same age can be compared. This woman is 10min faster than JBS who was one of the best on earth at the same age. This woman may not be doping, but the big red flag is waiving.
For those saying "who cares what some masters runner does", are you the same ones complaining about transgender athletes in HS athletics? Why does any of it matter? It matters because the legitimate performances are undermined. It matters because it is dishonest and it is unfair to those who compete within the rules.
462 -
WildOutliers wrote:
A wild outlier is a big red flag. Castille was a pretty obvious example of this. You could say "Well, Lagat ran 13:05 at 40", but what ridiculous comparison to a local road racer because he was an active pro and even he was declining. In this case Joan Benoit Samuelson is a reasonable comparison because she was world class and slowly declined and same age can be compared. This woman is 10min faster than JBS who was one of the best on earth at the same age. This woman may not be doping, but the big red flag is waiving.
For those saying "who cares what some masters runner does", are you the same ones complaining about transgender athletes in HS athletics? Why does any of it matter? It matters because the legitimate performances are undermined. It matters because it is dishonest and it is unfair to those who compete within the rules.
Conspiracy theory.
212 -
Here's what makes this performance beyond suspicious to me. Even if she IS doped to the gills, it's still beyond impressive.
I'd bet every dollar I have she's dirty.
172 -
This whole interview is interesting. She claims to do very little lifting, occasionally doing pushups and using light weights. She never goes above 75 mpw and is rarely injured. I’m just struggling to understand how her physique changed so much over the last decade without an intense lifting routine.
261 -
If I were her teams (she seems to run for several) I would kick her off. It’s so obvious and such a bad look for them.
123 -
Looks like aduck wrote:
briguy wrote:
Fair point. But there should be no thing as an age group record. Because because records are kept there should some method of validating that these are the case. A race where a record is set has to ensure the course is the distance stated. So why bother with this validation if there is no way to prove that the athlete setting the record hasn't cheated?
Exactly, it's window dressing. Or the emperor's new clothes. Records are only as important as you choose to believe them to be. Same for masters' championships or whatever. Choosing to make a big deal about it is a you thing. It's a tiny minority that lets this sort of thing bother them, it has no affect at all on the overwhelming majority of competitors. It really does have zero impact on the sport.
315 -
Gills are full wrote:
If I were her teams (she seems to run for several) I would kick her off. It’s so obvious and such a bad look for them.
Easy to say unless there is proof or the team gets serious backlash because the fans will rally that people are just jealous.
The blame for unbelievable masters records falls squarely on USATF who, when someone who is questionable, and is reported to the Play Clean Tip Center is not asking for a random drug test per their policy.
Athlete members agree to submit to drug testing by WA and/or USADA or their designees at any time and understand that the use of methods or substances prohibited by the applicable anti-doping rules make them subject to penalties including, but not limited to, disqualification and suspension. *****
It is understandable that they cannot follow up on every tip. But if they are not going to follow up on WRs and ARs then 2 things:
1. Stop keeping AG records
OR
2. Let records be set on courses that are not certified
Why verify the course if they don't verify the athlete?
90 -
looks like a duck wrote:
If she hadn't run close to this time when she was 48, i'd believe she is clean. But no way someone runs like a 2:46 at age 48 and PRs at 59? something does not smell right at all.
Mmmm…not necessarily. Lots o’ variables. I’m a late 50s male, been running over 40 years and a few months ago, time trialed a 1/2 marathon for kicks and giggles at a very tiny local 1/2 that was almost an over 40 PR…within seconds of what i ran 11 years ago in mid 40s. No juice, no T supplementation, no burritos, not even any caffeine. Just a nice cool morning in regular trainers. I just have more time to train now so I do more miles consistently and am much more serious about nutrition, body maintenance (stretching, yoga, etc), sleep habits, recovery, etc. I also feel very confident I will marathon PR this year. No doubts at all. Lifestyles change as we age and sometimes thats a big benefit.
123 -
CrispyChicken wrote:
At 59 it's good to have some meat on the bones so as not to look like a Skeletor.
Skeltor's name was misleading. He was pretty jacked: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fhe-man.fandom.com%2Fwiki%2FSkeletor&psig=AOvVaw0zFg8PWd-3nkYKmC0YRSgR&ust=1682463509311000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CBAQjRxqFwoTCIClt5LPw_4CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAH
30 -
StillRunnin wrote:
looks like a duck wrote:
If she hadn't run close to this time when she was 48, i'd believe she is clean. But no way someone runs like a 2:46 at age 48 and PRs at 59? something does not smell right at all.
Mmmm…not necessarily. Lots o’ variables. I’m a late 50s male, been running over 40 years and a few months ago, time trialed a 1/2 marathon for kicks and giggles at a very tiny local 1/2 that was almost an over 40 PR…within seconds of what i ran 11 years ago in mid 40s. No juice, no T supplementation, no burritos, not even any caffeine. Just a nice cool morning in regular trainers. I just have more time to train now so I do more miles consistently and am much more serious about nutrition, body maintenance (stretching, yoga, etc), sleep habits, recovery, etc. I also feel very confident I will marathon PR this year. No doubts at all. Lifestyles change as we age and sometimes thats a big benefit.
that's actually cool. How seriously did you train earlier in life? If you were you a hobby jogger who now that you have time got serious, it totally makes sense that you would run in your mid 40s. the person in question has been in serious training for 10+ years.
21
2 posts were removed from this page.
What People Are Talking About On LetsRun
No top threads at the moment. Check back soon.