I remember watching Outdoor Nats with him and Luke Puskedra (back when it was free on Flotrack). Both were after the 2 mile record. Luke hung on for 3-4 laps and then backed off, and good thing too, he just beat Colby Lowe by the skin of his teeth. That 1600/3200 double was legendary. Sub 9 runners stuck with German for a few laps, then realized they would not be able to sustain such a pace. It is otherworldly to see talented runners get dropped so easily by an even larger talent. Like a 13:36 guy getting lapped in the 5k by Cheptegai
90% of what I’m seeing about German is either track related or about his success after high school. This thread is about XC and HS specifically. While he does hold the CA course record, he peaked early. And I know that hurts people to read. Aaron dismantled the greatest NXN field of all time, multiple sub 14 5kers, multiple sub 4 milers. Nationals is what matters the most. I’m not saying Aaron is better or worse than German, but to list off a bunch of track accolades and act like Aaron isn’t in the discussion is ridiculous.
On a side note, what could German have done if coached by Sean Brosnan? :o
90% of what I’m seeing about German is either track related or about his success after high school. This thread is about XC and HS specifically. While he does hold the CA course record, he peaked early. And I know that hurts people to read. Aaron dismantled the greatest NXN field of all time, multiple sub 14 5kers, multiple sub 4 milers. Nationals is what matters the most. I’m not saying Aaron is better or worse than German, but to list off a bunch of track accolades and act like Aaron isn’t in the discussion is ridiculous.
On a side note, what could German have done if coached by Sean Brosnan? :o
brosnan is no supercoach. He was fortunate to have 2 families that provided him 5 of the most talented high school runners ever.
The Newbury Park runners would have run between 2 seconds faster or 2 seconds slower with most other high school coaches. They would have been studs no matter who their coach was.
I think he could have. But there's a reason only one person has done this double. It's bloody hard even for the best of the best.
And please everyone stop qualifying with "if they didn't get sick. If it wasn't windy, blablabla". That's what racing is all about! Staying healthy factors into the discussion of best ever
Sorry. It's not a given. Lvs 829 is not given enough respect here.
Webb was a beast. But the pre race was a very special race even for him. It's not a given he could a run in 820s. But yes it was possible. I personally saw his 845. He was working (he always did 🤣) And you gotta understand he was training for mid d for outdoor season. If he focused on the 2mile yes of course he'd crush it. But he didn't win footlocker bc Ritz had more strength. Ritz certainly wasn't a 830 guy. He tried and couldn't. Webb was obviously a faster track guy. But it's not just about ability. He didn't go after it his outdoor season in terms of his race choices but also his training.
I think he could have. But there's a reason only one person has done this double. It's bloody hard even for the best of the best.
And please everyone stop qualifying with "if they didn't get sick. If it wasn't windy, blablabla". That's what racing is all about! Staying healthy factors into the discussion of best ever
the reason is because no one has tried. maybe no one else could have, but that’s not the reason we know of.
Also worth noting Hobbs ran that 8:39 (8:36 3200) with a 56 last lap
I think Colin Sahlman could have too -- close at least. Yes, he didn't run much faster than 8:34 in the 3200m, but he focused on the shorter distances later in the season, and neither did German (8:34.40 full 2mi, fresh, so 8:31 low for 3200m -- a national HS record at the time).
Still, you have to actually do it, and no one else has.
German's Mt. SAC 14:24 might be his most impressive mark, not least because it still stands...the Youngs, one of whom had already run 13:43 on the track as a junior, took some very good shots at it, but couldn't quite get it.
Alan Webb might have had a shot at a 4:00/8:34 double. He ran one real two-mile as a senior, 8:45 basically alone indoors, but it's another 8 or so seconds down to 8:34 for 3200, and that's a long way, never mind as the second part of a double.
Regarding Mt Sac
Newbury Park actually hasn't taken good attempts at the course due to the philosophy's of their training and prep for peaking. They are looking to win at States and Nationals, so they don't want to burn themselves going all out at Sectionals. They do not like the course either. (from Sean Brosnan in the GO vs NP 2019 videos)
They basically did a workout at 2021 and 2022 prelims and finals and were just pacing teammates for experience or better times.
I think they could have beaten that specific record even though they failed at the State course because that Fernandez time was so much better
Yeah, I misremembered this one -- the 14:24 in the state meet at Woodward Park was the race I meant.
My mind has been infected by people claiming Webb could easily run sub 8:30 his senior year. I honestly think Drew Hunter would've had a better shot than Webb.
Everything is speculation obviously, one way or the other, but I am confident Leo could do it in a couple months from now if he had a great day. He's already run 3:58 and 3:59 equivalents. I think he could've been in 3:58 shape as early as last year if he didn't get sick, so I wouldn't be shocked if he could get to 3:55-6 this year, and he seems to have more strength than his brother who ran 7:57 and 13:43. All it comes down to is the rest which makes all of this pure speculation.
Hobbs is the one I feel strongest about. A 4:01.7 mile would be very easy for him, and then I do believe he'd be able to come back in 8:34.
I doubt anyone will ever attempt this, so at the end of the day we'll never know.
First of all , no one said easily for Webb. But anyone rhat thinks he would not have run under 8:30 for two mikes has no idea how to observe history or the sport.
webb ran 8:45 crushing sub four minute HS guy Brannen when he barely broke 4 at the Armory
he was almost 6 seconds fitter in his 3:53.x
he surely would have beaten every HS’er ever at two miles. I know no one other than you that thinks otherwise. Sorry.
but keep at it, maybe your dearest friends believe you?
He probably wouldn't run 1:47 if he goes for sub 8:30. I actually think LV would beat every highsschooler ever at 2 miles with the best competition being Hunter and Fernandez.
90% of what I’m seeing about German is either track related or about his success after high school. This thread is about XC and HS specifically. While he does hold the CA course record, he peaked early. And I know that hurts people to read. Aaron dismantled the greatest NXN field of all time, multiple sub 14 5kers, multiple sub 4 milers. Nationals is what matters the most. I’m not saying Aaron is better or worse than German, but to list off a bunch of track accolades and act like Aaron isn’t in the discussion is ridiculous.
On a side note, what could German have done if coached by Sean Brosnan? :o
Peaked early? Lol. He didn’t peak early. He probably only reached 50% of his potential. That frail-ish body connected to his aerobic engine was probably the greatest casualty of all time. If I had to guess, you a current HS student.
GF, like I said, was injured most of his first 3 years of HS. He did run 15:14 on Woodward as a sophomore but pretty much had no notable times as junior because he couldn’t stay healthy. His senior year, when he ran his 4:00, he didn’t do speed work. He had an a injury forcing him to miss time in April and his coach & him decided to just do pace work so he would not get hurt.
For some reason I read this thread as Colin Sahlman. Aaron being compared to German is disrespectful.
Aaron did win Nationals. But that’s basically the only thing he’s in HS and the only time he wasn’t completely demolished by his own teammates, who all took their best shots at German’s course record and came up short.
Again, GF ran every one of his races against HS runners. German, today, could’ve won Arcadia 1600 & 3200 on the same day.
Track is more nuanced than times. For example, Cheptegei is the world record holder and I wouldn’t feel comfortable betting on him to win any race from 5k to half marathon.
Speaking of coaching: Honestly, I always wished German eventually linked up with Salazar. I felt Alberto would’ve been able to keep him healthy and improve.
First of all , no one said easily for Webb. But anyone rhat thinks he would not have run under 8:30 for two mikes has no idea how to observe history or the sport.
webb ran 8:45 crushing sub four minute HS guy Brannen when he barely broke 4 at the Armory
he was almost 6 seconds fitter in his 3:53.x
he surely would have beaten every HS’er ever at two miles. I know no one other than you that thinks otherwise. Sorry.
but keep at it, maybe your dearest friends believe you?
He probably wouldn't run 1:47 if he goes for sub 8:30. I actually think LV would beat every highsschooler ever at 2 miles with the best competition being Hunter and Fernandez.
Put German in Pre 2 mile. What does he run?
But I must admit… I have Webb winning an all time 2 mile.
Apparently my memory isn't that great 🤣. I think He ran 845 at the armory. Banked track and considered fast at the time
How did you see it in(the 8:45) person LOL , if you cannot even remember where it was..the 8:45 was run at PG Sportsplex in Md.. his first sub 4 was run at the Armory , I did see both in person. I think what people have to remember, is that other than his Pre Mile and the Indoor one chasing. Webb had no set up two mile of pacers..neither did Kessler..neither did German, I was at Greesnboro, I do not remember it being particularly windy, as one other does..I went to every Nationals meet from 2001 at Raleigh ..Thru 2011 in Greensboro. He had no help after about 3 maybe close to 4 lasps, after Puskedra fell off.
Apparently my memory isn't that great 🤣. I think He ran 845 at the armory. Banked track and considered fast at the time
How did you see it in(the 8:45) person LOL , if you cannot even remember where it was..the 8:45 was run at PG Sportsplex in Md.. his first sub 4 was run at the Armory , I did see both in person. I think what people have to remember, is that other than his Pre Mile and the Indoor one chasing. Webb had no set up two mile of pacers..neither did Kessler..neither did German, I was at Greesnboro, I do not remember it being particularly windy, as one other does..I went to every Nationals meet from 2001 at Raleigh ..Thru 2011 in Greensboro. He had no help after about 3 maybe close to 4 lasps, after Puskedra fell off.
Yeah, Webb’s 2 mile was supposed to be match race between he & Nate Brannen. Brannen had run some very fast times coming in. In the actual race, I think Brannen stuck with Webb for about a mile.
The problem for dudes like Webb & Hobbs was that their 1500m/ mile times were otherworldly. They were too fast in their main event to prioritize a fast 2 mile in a less sexy event.
Webb had run 3:53 and Hobbs 3:34. Those times get you entry into USAs with a slight chance of making the final.. In Webb’s case, we all thought he was making the team and were disappointed when he finished 5th.
How did you see it in(the 8:45) person LOL , if you cannot even remember where it was..the 8:45 was run at PG Sportsplex in Md.. his first sub 4 was run at the Armory , I did see both in person. I think what people have to remember, is that other than his Pre Mile and the Indoor one chasing. Webb had no set up two mile of pacers..neither did Kessler..neither did German, I was at Greesnboro, I do not remember it being particularly windy, as one other does..I went to every Nationals meet from 2001 at Raleigh ..Thru 2011 in Greensboro. He had no help after about 3 maybe close to 4 lasps, after Puskedra fell off.
Yeah, Webb’s 2 mile was supposed to be match race between he & Nate Brannen. Brannen had run some very fast times coming in. In the actual race, I think Brannen stuck with Webb for about a mile.
The problem for dudes like Webb & Hobbs was that their 1500m/ mile times were otherworldly. They were too fast in their main event to prioritize a fast 2 mile in a less sexy event.
Webb had run 3:53 and Hobbs 3:34. Those times get you entry into USAs with a slight chance of making the final.. In Webb’s case, we all thought he was making the team and were disappointed when he finished 5th.
90% of what I’m seeing about German is either track related or about his success after high school. This thread is about XC and HS specifically. While he does hold the CA course record, he peaked early. And I know that hurts people to read. Aaron dismantled the greatest NXN field of all time, multiple sub 14 5kers, multiple sub 4 milers. Nationals is what matters the most. I’m not saying Aaron is better or worse than German, but to list off a bunch of track accolades and act like Aaron isn’t in the discussion is ridiculous.
On a side note, what could German have done if coached by Sean Brosnan? :o
Peaked early? Lol. He didn’t peak early. He probably only reached 50% of his potential. That frail-ish body connected to his aerobic engine was probably the greatest casualty of all time. If I had to guess, you a current HS student.
GF, like I said, was injured most of his first 3 years of HS. He did run 15:14 on Woodward as a sophomore but pretty much had no notable times as junior because he couldn’t stay healthy. His senior year, when he ran his 4:00, he didn’t do speed work. He had an a injury forcing him to miss time in April and his coach & him decided to just do pace work so he would not get hurt.
For some reason I read this thread as Colin Sahlman. Aaron being compared to German is disrespectful.
Aaron did win Nationals. But that’s basically the only thing he’s in HS and the only time he wasn’t completely demolished by his own teammates, who all took their best shots at German’s course record and came up short.
Again, GF ran every one of his races against HS runners. German, today, could’ve won Arcadia 1600 & 3200 on the same day.
Track is more nuanced than times. For example, Cheptegei is the world record holder and I wouldn’t feel comfortable betting on him to win any race from 5k to half marathon.
Speaking of coaching: Honestly, I always wished German eventually linked up with Salazar. I felt Alberto would’ve been able to keep him healthy and improve.
If Cheptegei is healthy and at his best, I find it hard to believe he loses a 5k or 10k. Maybe Jakob could get him. Maybe. He's like 50th all time in the half, so idk why that was part of your example.
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