Ooops sorry, wrong thread, that was about Kipchoge not Rudisha.
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I will quit following the sport if Rudisha is found to be doping. There are a few athletes I admire and Rudisha is on top of the list.
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He, like Flojo and Koch, holds the officially recognized record, and is no longer at risk of testing positive.
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Well, I go with "if it is to good to be true..."
Only 5 people have ever run under 1:42:
Rudisha, 7x between 2010 and 2012 - before doping tests in Kenya became serious
Kipketer, 4x between 1996 and 1997 - before Epo tests became available
Amos, 2x between 2012 and 2019 - currently suspended for doping
Coe, 1x in 1981 - before blood transfusions became illegal and before out-of-competition tests started
Cruz, 1x in 1984 - before blood transfusions became illegal and before out-of-competition tests started
Finally, the 800 m were historically among the worst disciplines when it came to blood doping as published in 2015 by the Sunday Times.
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has to be said wrote:
Well, I go with "if it is to good to be true..."
Only 5 people have ever run under 1:42:
Rudisha, 7x between 2010 and 2012 - before doping tests in Kenya became serious
Kipketer, 4x between 1996 and 1997 - before Epo tests became available
Amos, 2x between 2012 and 2019 - currently suspended for doping
Coe, 1x in 1981 - before blood transfusions became illegal and before out-of-competition tests started
Cruz, 1x in 1984 - before blood transfusions became illegal and before out-of-competition tests started
Finally, the 800 m were historically among the worst disciplines when it came to blood doping as published in 2015 by the Sunday Times.
Why is sub-1:42 "too good to be true?" Yes, it's been's done sparingly but there're plenty of guys in the 1:42 range who don't look like God's gift to the event.
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THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
call me a cynic wrote:
I think he was probably dirty, but only because I believe the sport as a whole is rife with doping. All the comments about his physique and being built for the event are things we were saying about Kiprop several years ago. You can have all the natural talent in the world and still be a doper.
FWIW, nothing against Rudisha at all, doping or not.
I'd say it's slightly different than Kiprop, who looks like an alien and almost too tall and skinny for middle distance. Rudisha, Mu, Hodgkinson and Coe are kind of the images I have in my head when you think what the prototypical 800m runner looks like. Lean, wiry, but strong.
Which S Coe? S Coe 1978 & 1979 was a very skinny young man, appeared to be about 119 lbs., about the size of a female runner. He had the build in 1978 & 1979 of peak Emma Coburn. After years of weight training and probably a lot of weight training while down with running injuries from 1982 go forward, S Coe put on obvious weight, about 129 lbs. in 1989.
From 1896 Olympics, I made note of height of all male Olympic medalists, circa 2012. Excluding hurdles and steeplechase events, the tallest men were 100m men, over 6', if I recall maybe 6'1". Height very gradually declined for 800m men. By 1500m, 5'9" then gradually down to 5'4" or 5'5" for Marathon.
In summary, S Coe was a bit small for an 800m man. S Coe's lack of size did not stop him from racing fast, glorified TTs on cool European summer nights but S Coe obviously avoided exchanging elbows with 800m competitors in important 800m races. For Olympics or World Championships 800m, S Coe's size was not ideal.
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600yd/600m man wrote:
Which S Coe? S Coe 1978 & 1979 was a very skinny young man, appeared to be about 119 lbs., about the size of a female runner. He had the build in 1978 & 1979 of peak Emma Coburn. After years of weight training and probably a lot of weight training while down with running injuries from 1982 go forward, S Coe put on obvious weight, about 129 lbs. in 1989.
From 1896 Olympics, I made note of height of all male Olympic medalists, circa 2012. Excluding hurdles and steeplechase events, the tallest men were 100m men, over 6', if I recall maybe 6'1". Height very gradually declined for 800m men. By 1500m, 5'9" then gradually down to 5'4" or 5'5" for Marathon.
In summary, S Coe was a bit small for an 800m man. S Coe's lack of size did not stop him from racing fast, glorified TTs on cool European summer nights but S Coe obviously avoided exchanging elbows with 800m competitors in important 800m races. For Olympics or World Championships 800m, S Coe's size was not ideal.
Yeah, I was more referring to him in motion time trialing as opposed to exchanging elbows. He was on the skinnier side (and I was referring 1980-1981 when he was at his peak), but Rudisha was a skinny guy as well. Neither compares to Asbel Kiprop's alien type build which I see listed at 6'2"/135 in his prime. For Rudisha you see between 6'1" and 6'3" and 168 pounds. This is roughly the same size as Donovan Brazier as well. This thread pegs Coe (mid-career on) at around 5'8"/130. Pre-gym work perhaps 110 is accurate: .11 -
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THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
has to be said wrote:
Well, I go with "if it is to good to be true..."
Only 5 people have ever run under 1:42:
Rudisha, 7x between 2010 and 2012 - before doping tests in Kenya became serious
Kipketer, 4x between 1996 and 1997 - before Epo tests became available
Amos, 2x between 2012 and 2019 - currently suspended for doping
Coe, 1x in 1981 - before blood transfusions became illegal and before out-of-competition tests started
Cruz, 1x in 1984 - before blood transfusions became illegal and before out-of-competition tests started
Finally, the 800 m were historically among the worst disciplines when it came to blood doping as published in 2015 by the Sunday Times.
Why is sub-1:42 "too good to be true?" Yes, it's been's done sparingly but there're plenty of guys in the 1:42 range who don't look like God's gift to the event.
This is sorta the point I was making earlier. Put Rudisha next to any 1:42 guy and the visible difference in running mechanics is just staggering.
Someone else already mentioned it, but consider that Nick Symmonds, who’s pretty much consensus (at least as consensus as it’ll get in elite running) clean, ran 1:42.95. Is it really that absurd to think that someone who was so clearly (comparatively) optimized for the event ran 2 seconds faster?Re: the Sunday times article, there’s isn’t really much basis to the claim that the 800 is historically one of the most doped events (at least over the last 20 years). Suspicious blood test values in the 800 (30% of medalists between 2001 and 2012) were on par with the 5k (28%), 10k (28%), and steeple (33%), and were significantly lower than the 1500 (54%) and 20k/50k race walks (52%, 48%).
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Achieving an Olympic Final is highly suspicious. Sad. But true.
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Rudisha is beyond any doubt the cleanest sub 1:41 800 runner ever.
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Rudisha ran 1:49 in his first 800m ever on a dirty Kenyan track. Let me tell you, you don't need drugs if nature gives you talent like that... source:80
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Runningart2004 wrote:
No Olympic medalist in any sport since the 60s has been clean. You can go even further back if you want to count strychnine or amphetamines.
Alan
You mean "no Olympic finalist" in any sport. Zatopek was likely the last clean distance runner that made an Olympic final.
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I don't picture brother Colm to dope his athletes, back then.
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LOL ya that part hasn't aged well...
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He raced much more than a doper would
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Colm O’Connell said Rudisha had fallen in wirh a bad group after 2011 and had stopped training with O’Connell et al. Rudisha had been hurt and likely went the drug route to get things rolling. After all, in Kenya he was surrounded by dopers anyway.
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You better put a source on that or you're full of it
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michimanx wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:
No Olympic medalist in any sport since the 60s has been clean. You can go even further back if you want to count strychnine or amphetamines.
Alan
You mean "no Olympic finalist" in any sport. Zatopek was likely the last clean distance runner that made an Olympic final.
Men, today we die a little.
Why is Cruz catching strays?
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Probably as likely as Kiprop was clean.
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