Peter Bol: independent testing says he did not take EPO - Can the EPO test be trusted?

i am in the lab business, tested steroids, labs adhere to ISO 17025

steroid testing is a gravy business. first. at $1250 per sample. you can run 100 samples/day with a staff of 6, more than very easily. that is 100k/day.

second, drug labs like to be god's upon themselves, and work to stamp out competition, through regulation and permitting, i.e. you won't be able to join the club without cash and connections.

as part of buyer seller transactions, both parties get independent testing as part of the process.

in the case of ISO 17025 accredited labs, they have to use standard reference materials, and normally complete round robing testing, where crosschecking with a second lab in 'BIG TRANSACTION" is the normal protocol,

in the case of synthetics vs natural molecules, can have different isomers, like testosterone,

the MS detector detects the molecule fragments, combined with a mass filter and targeted sample prep yields a near 100% identification probability. which makes determination of synthetic vs natural possible, as the isomers are different slightly in structure but act similarly in the receptor, to produce the key effect, in the biochemical chain, i.e. anabolic. estrogenic, etc.

with that said, it is basic incompetence not to look closely at the isomers, it's on display on the chromatogram on the computer display, click, and there are algorithms built in to automate identification. these processes are very well established,

people generally in the sport and even sports medicine have a very poor understanding,

they riffel out the buzz words, LCMSanabolictestEPO to one another, great to impress one another and talk to the press, but generally speaking is a cluster**f

regarding natural vs synthetic, chemical reactions produce the different isomers, and many molecules can be extracted from natural sources or can be produced by biotransformation using microorganisms, yeast, fungus, bacteria, where the product is identical to natural.

so the next step in doping is to biotransform, use peptides, precursors to elevate what you want to elevate.

back in the day they figured out testes and testosterone were connected, hence eating bull testicles, and this extends to herbals, extracts in an effort to supplement

expecially in endurance sports, the activity depletes and low testerone results, a great host of issues, where blood work tells the tale.

so it is obvious that the athlete needs to supplement, in the case of a salazar, he hit the wall, and looked for solutions, which led to the grey area, and over perhaps probably.

people like mary slaney, carl lewis, i'm strongly led to believe were clean for the majority of their carear, i know coaches directly involved, and i see the exact scenario playing out with Zane, so he's in "good company"

lewis with his natural 10.0 which may be the real world record, could not beat the admitted roided ben johnson.

and with that said, ben tested for the actual steroid and not the metabolite, which is impossible, so his sample was tampered with. this is open and shut.

ben confessed as did coach charley and they were nailed to the wall.

the rest of the canadian team started to come out as having no choice, everybody knew, but shut up after they found out that ben and charlie would be hammered and the rest buried.

What I want to know is how did Bol and his manager manage to get his samples from the lab? I didnt think that WADA would be so forthcoming with handing out samples to athletes/other labs after they have been tested as they are usually put back in storage for retesting down the line or destroyed.

This article may explain it.

wwos.nine.com.au

'Shortcut' suspicions raised amid Bol drug saga

'Incredibly flawed'

Open link

Independent testing done AFTER?

you could be right. about the 10.0 clean.

Guys please...if you don't know how this works or refuse to read up about it, don't make idiotic statements

Have the humility to ask questions instead, not everyone is expected to know stuff outside their field of expertise

'We' sell and service these GC-Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometers to labs including ADSTL, naturally ocurring stable isotope ratios (in environment) can be used to discriminate between compounds from body or synthetic.

That said, the test in question was the SAR-PAGE test....the GE stands for Gel Electrophoresis. This test requires a lot of human interpretation (much more than IRMS), and as I understand in this case, there was NO additional sampling, nor even use of same sample, but interpretation by a broader and better qualified cohort.

Heisenberg sure was on to something when he said watching something changes the very thing.

Well the thread title claims that there was "independent testing", but there wasn't of course. A bunch of Wada haters looked at Sara's analysis and claimed it was wrong.

Semantics..."independent analyses"

In lab analyses, things are either rightly or wrongly interpreted. It doesn't come down to WADA haters or Bol haters, the lab as a right to reply, but I will put the esteemed experts ahead of the lab analysts

Please also state your credentials regarding the SAR-PAGE and/or GC-IRMS EPO analyses...that, or STFU

Sara, lol, I wrote Wada but autocorrect had a different idea...

Semantics? I see huge differences between testing and commenting on testing.

You are asking for my credentials? What are yours?

Please crawl back under your rock

thanks for your contribution.

i am exiting this process, but please continue the discussion.

cheers,

thanks for your contribution.
i am exiting this process, but please continue the discussion.
cheers,

I gave you mine above...I have expert training on the installation, operation, interpretation, validation, repair of GC-IRMS

The experts are not 'commenting' on the testing, they are repeating the most important part of the test , which is the interpretation.

As I said earlier, be humble, ask questions, you get answers, thats how you learn. Don't expose ignorance by commenting outside your field of knowledge.

Hear that grinding sound? That's Sports Integrity Australia circling its wagons.

I literally asked a question, you are the one taking ad-hominem swipes and did not even answer the question. And for your info, my career is in Biomedicine and there is a huge difference between "independent testing" as the thread implies and reanalysis.

You could have simply stated that the results were reanalysed and not retested but you didn't, you chose to be a self righteous d!ck