The current group of American marathoners need to be forcibly retired. They just have not cut it.

Then explain Galen Rupp if not Jake Riley at the 2020 OT. Don't confuse correlation with causation. Seko's and de Castella's muscular legs didn't hinder them from putting in performances (sans supershoes) that are still far superior to those from relatively spindly modern runners of any national origin.

I have no idea who those people are. I guess more bang average americans?

Do they need their pro cards pulled?

26:44, 2:06, two time Olympic medalist. Yup, mediocre. And your PR's are...?

More LRC idiocy.

Appropriate to just leave it there.

I think part of it is training, and part of it is age. Many Americans are on the track in their prime then move to the marathon after.

With regards to training, I think Americans don't do enough mileage. Americans think 100 mpw is high mileage and good for marathon. East Africans think 200+ km/wk is high mileage, which is over 120 mpw. We need more guys doing consistent 120-130 mpw, with the occasional heavy training weeks higher than that late in the build up. We also need more marathon specific work. 8-12 mile tempo at marathon pace is a good workout but not specific. We need moderate long runs of 30k and working up to 40k to be competitive. If an American did 40k at 5:15 pace on rolling hills in training and felt relaxed in the middle of a 130 mile week he'd be in great shape and ready to compete with the East Africans.

As for the genetics issue, the genetics for a world class distance runner are rare but can and do occur anywhere in the world. That said, they occur more frequently in East Africa. It's not that East Africans are more talented, it's just that there are more of them that are talented. Our most talented guys are just as talents as theirs, but there's just more of them.

Cope all you want, but at the end of the day, is (or was ever) Rupp one of the world's BEST marathoners?

I would say so, what with an Olympic medal and a win at Chicago.

I think this is a good analysis. I wish more solid college track runners who know they aren’t going to be Olympians would move to the marathon right after college, if not before. Perhaps you are a 28:20 guy, but you’re never going to be a 27:20 guy or get this amazing “pro contract” right out of school. Just go straight to the roads at age 22, 23, and give it a solid five years. Really commit and see what happens.

Sometimes I think we make running too complicated. It’s a very simple sport after all. Double thresholds, tempo, fartlek, long run, not racing much, etc. Just go run two hours a day in two runs, each and every day, perhaps one two hour run on the weekend. Just start doing that when young, right after graduation but maybe even at 18 or 19. Run by feel. No real structure. Just run hills, run hard progressions sometimes, maybe a fartlek or tempo, but mostly just run. Plenty of it comfortable mileage. Before you know it, if you are a talented chap, you will be running 130-140 mpw within a couple years. If enough kids did that, surely a few of them could get to 2:06.

Is either of those a top tier mecca for the world's BEST marathoners, a la Berlin, London, Doha?

Does the olympics not limit the BEST marathon countries to at most 4 entrants each?

Cope in private please, don't insult the world's intelligence!

? Where at in Michigan? I don't think you are being totally honest or you're just not a very good coach.

Cope in private yourself, whatever that means and believe what you want. There's no way I am not going to consider someone with an Olympic medal and a win at a Major one of the best marathoners in the world. Can there be even better ones? Sure.

“Forcibly ban” people who want to compete in a sport. Ya, umm, ok. That sounds entirely reasonable, very likely to happen and not at all like the ramblings of a guy waving his cup in the street and trying to sell you a pencil.

Perhaps you should take away their pro cards.

Ya, “forcibly” even!

I would call having a pb about a mile slower than your competitors mediocre, wouldn't you? Oh, well, that explains the present us acceptance, and this thread then.

You nailed it, this snotty attitude is wholly borrowed from one of this site's co-founders. The thought that fans should have the right to kick people out of the pro level of the sport, if not out of the sport entirely, because they don't compete in a manner satisfactory to the peculiar preferences of a small, vocal cult of cranky fans. It's unconstructive, unimaginative, and uninspiring. I'd refer to T. Roosevelt's "Man In The Arena," but I digress.

I neglected to mention Rupp. He did run 2:06. I’m surprised to see so many piling on the guy. He has always been among the world’s best at pretty much every distance. 3:50 mile, 26:44, and 2:06. Olympic silver medalist. I realize there are many who are better, but to diminish him is ridiculous.

Even accounting for supershoes, Meb had slower PRs than Rupp yet was certainly a top world class competitor. I wish we had a dozen Rupps.