Yet Mike Smith coaches the NAU team. How is that different than Jerry coaching the Ducks?
Plus moving from Portland to Flagstaff is a much bigger change than moving from Portland to Eugene.
Thank you. All the Jerry haters can go crawl under a rock.
People are misunderstanding the tone of Jerry's quote. People are acting like Jerry doesn't want Woody to be great. I'd bet my life that is wrong.
And people are assuming Jerry said it in an angry way.
There are few better coaching success stories in US pro history that I'm aware of than Jerry Schumacher and Woody Kincaid. I'm sure he wants Woody to be great. It's like a dad talking to his kid. You tell them your opinion, "I think you are making a mistake," they agree or disagree (and if they disagree it may motivate them) and life goes on.
And it's very funny that people are like "How dare Jerry coach a college team and pros at the same time" when Mike S does that as well and Jerry does because Phil MF Knight wants him to.
Woody said it upset him that Jerry moved the team to Eugene and he also said he was concerned about Jerry having divided his duties. You then tell people to crawl under a rock. Woody said it in Gault‘s interview. Some may hate Jerry and some are simply observing what Woody said.
The quote from Woody on Jerry was, "Jerry (Schumacher) told me 'I think you're throwing away your career by leaving'. He didn't want me to leave...."
I wonder what Jerry meant. That Woody can't compete clean, or that he can't keep doping on his own without getting caught, or that Jerry's methods are so superior?
I like a lot of the BTC athletes, but Jerry is just so unlikeable to me. With the nandrolone stuff and the tight leash he keeps on all his runners with racing and media, not a fan. Good for Woody, super impressive to do this largely off solo training
Jerry is an absolute loser. He’ll make more money in his life than I do so good for him but I could never live with myself I were him. Good for Jerry
Keep in mind Jerry’s coaching mentor is Martin Smith…..if you know a little about Martin, it should tell you all you need to know about how Jerry was taught to deal with adversity. This quote from Woody is classic Martin head game bs.
This is correct. Jerry is one of those guys who negative recruits - ie. the only way you can be an All-American, run sub four, etc is to come to (Wisconsin) Oregon.
Yet Mike Smith coaches the NAU team. How is that different than Jerry coaching the Ducks?
Plus moving from Portland to Flagstaff is a much bigger change than moving from Portland to Eugene.
Thank you. All the Jerry haters can go crawl under a rock.
People are misunderstanding the tone of Jerry's quote. People are acting like Jerry doesn't want Woody to be great. I'd bet my life that is wrong.
And people are assuming Jerry said it in an angry way.
There are few better coaching success stories in US pro history that I'm aware of than Jerry Schumacher and Woody Kincaid. I'm sure he wants Woody to be great. It's like a dad talking to his kid. You tell them your opinion, "I think you are making a mistake," they agree or disagree (and if they disagree it may motivate them) and life goes on.
And it's very funny that people are like "How dare Jerry coach a college team and pros at the same time" when Mike S does that as well and Jerry does because Phil MF Knight wants him to.
Kincaid is a 30 year-old man, not a kid. And Schumacher was his coach, not his dad. And it's not like Kincaid said he was going to try out triathlon or the 1500, he just wanted to try different training. If you're remotely mature and want the best for people around you, you wish them well. You don't tell them, essentially, "you're nothing without me." Schumacher's probably more upset that he's lost his reliable pacer for Fisher and Ahmed.
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted.
It seemed clear to me from the context of the interview that Schumacher was commenting on Kincaid leaving BTC to go solo--not a high percentage play for anyone. Not just giving up solid coaching, but also giving up teammates, support staff, facilities, travel arrangements, meet entry, PTs, etc, etc. Kincaid himself said it was very tough to train just two months on his own. It's hard for a pro distance runner without a team, and that's what Schumacher was talking about. If I was his coach I'd have worried he was throwing his career away too. Not because he needs MY coaching, but because he needs SOMEBODY'S coaching (and also training partners).
Funny how when salazar was coaching all the negative press and opinions were cast to him. Now that he’s out the picture, it’s jerry. Jerry was the good guy then, now he’s the new salazar. Mike smith is an average coach in a great situation and doing a damn good job with it. If you think he’s reinventing the wheel, put him at a small D3 school and let’s see what he produces.
This guy is likely going through a phase mourning the death of his dad. But this quote really seemed relevant to me:"I just want to show up and shoot the sh*t at practice and go out there and compete." Generation Z in a nutshell.
It seemed clear to me from the context of the interview that Schumacher was commenting on Kincaid leaving BTC to go solo--not a high percentage play for anyone. Not just giving up solid coaching, but also giving up teammates, support staff, facilities, travel arrangements, meet entry, PTs, etc, etc. Kincaid himself said it was very tough to train just two months on his own. It's hard for a pro distance runner without a team, and that's what Schumacher was talking about. If I was his coach I'd have worried he was throwing his career away too. Not because he needs MY coaching, but because he needs SOMEBODY'S coaching (and also training partners).
That's the way the Schumacher comment comes across to me. IOW Kincaid going out on his own rather than sticking with the group.
Yet Mike Smith coaches the NAU team. How is that different than Jerry coaching the Ducks?
Plus moving from Portland to Flagstaff is a much bigger change than moving from Portland to Eugene.
Thank you. All the Jerry haters can go crawl under a rock.
People are misunderstanding the tone of Jerry's quote. People are acting like Jerry doesn't want Woody to be great. I'd bet my life that is wrong.
And people are assuming Jerry said it in an angry way.
There are few better coaching success stories in US pro history that I'm aware of than Jerry Schumacher and Woody Kincaid. I'm sure he wants Woody to be great. It's like a dad talking to his kid. You tell them your opinion, "I think you are making a mistake," they agree or disagree (and if they disagree it may motivate them) and life goes on.
And it's very funny that people are like "How dare Jerry coach a college team and pros at the same time" when Mike S does that as well and Jerry does because Phil MF Knight wants him to.
Saying “I think you’re making a mistake” vs “I think you’re throwing your career away” carriers tonal differences from the word choice alone.
It seemed clear to me from the context of the interview that Schumacher was commenting on Kincaid leaving BTC to go solo--not a high percentage play for anyone. Not just giving up solid coaching, but also giving up teammates, support staff, facilities, travel arrangements, meet entry, PTs, etc, etc. Kincaid himself said it was very tough to train just two months on his own. It's hard for a pro distance runner without a team, and that's what Schumacher was talking about. If I was his coach I'd have worried he was throwing his career away too. Not because he needs MY coaching, but because he needs SOMEBODY'S coaching (and also training partners).
That's the way the Schumacher comment comes across to me. IOW Kincaid going out on his own rather than sticking with the group.
I’m going to disagree per my earlier comment about the head game approach to adversity he learned from Martin Smith. I’ll further add that BTC did not even acknowledge Woody’s performance last night. Unless I missed it….crickets. That speaks volumes in my book. I am NOT a BTC basher, but I think they now have a bunch of work to do to address the PR and culture issues that have arisen since Shelby’s positive test.
Woody says that he shifted to double thresholds when he was training on his own, and then continued doing so with Mike Smith. He has trained with the NAU guys for three weeks now, and they've been doing double thresholds three times a week, pretty much the same as Jakob. Woody describes this as 6 miles of intervals at threshold pace in the morning and again in the afternoon, in contrast to doing it all in one long tempo with Jerry--a ten mile tempo. Then they started on race specific sessions this month as well. You can easily see how an athlete who was always getting injured with Jerry would excel, at least in the short term, with this kind of training, which is much easier to get through without injury.
That's the way the Schumacher comment comes across to me. IOW Kincaid going out on his own rather than sticking with the group.
Helps it a little bit, but still Jerry really thinks Woody doing 70% of Mo/Grants workouts before dropping out is the best training for him? He doesn’t see why Woody would want something tailored to him. Woody is 30 and there is a wealth of information of training online. It sure seems even if Mike Smith wasn’t coaching him before Jan. 6 they were in-sync with double threshold, and the level of intensity. Woody being put in the B heat last year was just emblematic of the issues with Jerry running the show. The line from Jerry comes across as arrogant/stubborn. Hopefully he *can* evolve somewhat with his athletes who need some individualization.
Yet Mike Smith coaches the NAU team. How is that different than Jerry coaching the Ducks?
Plus moving from Portland to Flagstaff is a much bigger change than moving from Portland to Eugene.
Thank you. All the Jerry haters can go crawl under a rock.
People are misunderstanding the tone of Jerry's quote. People are acting like Jerry doesn't want Woody to be great. I'd bet my life that is wrong.
And people are assuming Jerry said it in an angry way.
There are few better coaching success stories in US pro history that I'm aware of than Jerry Schumacher and Woody Kincaid. I'm sure he wants Woody to be great. It's like a dad talking to his kid. You tell them your opinion, "I think you are making a mistake," they agree or disagree (and if they disagree it may motivate them) and life goes on.
And it's very funny that people are like "How dare Jerry coach a college team and pros at the same time" when Mike S does that as well and Jerry does because Phil MF Knight wants him to.
Your brother created this thread with the intention of stirring up s#$ and then you act surprised when people are critical of Jerry's remark.
It was better than the first one out there by Citrus mag. Kincaid just can’t speak in complete sentence and finish thoughts. Good luck to him but nobody should ever forget that BTC gave him an opportunity and put him on the map. Double threshold may be the short term icing on top.
Funny how when salazar was coaching all the negative press and opinions were cast to him. Now that he’s out the picture, it’s jerry. Jerry was the good guy then, now he’s the new salazar. Mike smith is an average coach in a great situation and doing a damn good job with it. If you think he’s reinventing the wheel, put him at a small D3 school and let’s see what he produces.
Let's see what any of these coaches listed produce at that level. What a stupid thing to say! Jerry didn't coach in D3, or Salazar or Mike Smith either. Lots of people getting the types of athletes they are allowed to coach could do reasonably as well, perhaps better. Most coaches do not get to coach these types of athletes, but coach anyway.
Frankly, I have more respect for what Gjert Ingebrigtsen has done with his 3 boys (average of 3.29.9 for 1500m btwn the 3 of them). At this point, the only American who has run faster than they average is Lagat. He developed them from little kids, not NCAA stars (for the most part) as the above are given.
Mike Smith had higher finishes in the men's 5k than Jerry did. Go join the better group
Mike Smith has also won more NCAA XC titles as a head coach than Jerry did at Wisconsin (5-1) and did so in a shorter time span (6 years to 10) with the resources of a D1-AA (below P5/G5) school. Give Mike Smith the Nike treatment Jerry has and who knows what he could do.