I just got back from a fairly low-key meet earlier today. In the 3000, there was talk about "breaking 11" from a few high school boys. They were all wearing Dragonflies with the exception of two of them, who were both wearing Vaporflies.
Seriously man, WTF? Superspikes aren't going to help much at that pace, and you're looking at maybe a 2-3 sec/mile advantage over trainers when you're going that slowly. You're better off increasing your mileage by 5 mpw instead.
Thank you for this great post; I'm on the same page with you. Last week, my top girl broke 6:00 in the 1600m for the first time, and as she crossed the finish line I started to feel tears begin to well up in my eyes. I went up to her and choked out, "you've finally run fast enough to be able to wear spikes. I'm so proud of you." She started crying and immediately went over and asked her mom if they could go buy a pair. My next girl ran 6:01, she's trash and hasn't earned that right yet.
Why should anyone running slower that 27:15 10k or 13:00 5k be allowed to wear spikes? You're obviously not going to set any WR or win any prize money, so what is the point?
it is in the sport's best interest that people are buying things related to the sport.
if we are gatekeeping gear, the shoe companies are going to make even less money than they currently do on track stuff and won't even bother producing them anymore.
we'd actually be better off if the sport was more like cycling where people who dont even ride like that are buying tens of thousands of dollars in gear.
Yeah the sport would be so much better if the gear was expensive that only the white guilt liberal could afford. I guess they could write all kinds of articles about how the sport needs more inclusivity, equality, and diversity while they price out anyone not like them.
Regarding wearing Dragonfly’s to break 11 for two miles. At that speed you’d probably be faster in entry level spikes or racing flats.
People buying things they don't really need is unnecessary consumption, which wastes energy and resources. It's reduce/reuse/recycle, and the most important one is to reduce what you use.
A better option for many runners that actually compete, race and care about their times is to get a pair of lightweight racing flats instead of spikes. Those flats would be good for racing on the track but they could also be used for racing on the roads. Buy two pairs of shoes instead of three.
“Man someone should really do something about climate change”.
Dragonflies were designed to take down something-thousand meter WRs. With that in mind, your 4:40 mile or whatever you run isn’t worth their purchase and use either.
Why not just let people buy and use gear that make them feel good about themselves?
Why do people need expensive gear to feel good about themselves?
it is in the sport's best interest that people are buying things related to the sport.
if we are gatekeeping gear, the shoe companies are going to make even less money than they currently do on track stuff and won't even bother producing them anymore.
we'd actually be better off if the sport was more like cycling where people who dont even ride like that are buying tens of thousands of dollars in gear.
Yeah the sport would be so much better if the gear was expensive that only the white guilt liberal could afford. I guess they could write all kinds of articles about how the sport needs more inclusivity, equality, and diversity while they price out anyone not like them.
Regarding wearing Dragonfly’s to break 11 for two miles. At that speed you’d probably be faster in entry level spikes or racing flats.
I think the issue isn’t that they are wearing spikes, but that often times the spike is too aggressive to be worn at that speed or with poor biomechanics.
Problem is, the “entry level” spikes are often made with heavier, poorer quality materials and sold at a lower price point.
That said, I don’t think the dragonflies are all too aggressive, but the victory’s don’t do much good if you’re not on your toes
For a lot of kids, wearing the spikes shows they have arrived in the sport, no matter what level they are at. At my wife's preschool, they have a sports day and we bring in all kinds of sports equipment to try on. Their favorite by far are the soccer cleats. Even though they are too big, it makes them feel that they are connected to sport.
Yeah but if you’re spending $200 for cleats to play youth soccer. Am I the only one that doesn’t like all the money spent just so kids can play what should be simple games?
Unless the track is wet and slippery, this is probably correct. At 6min/mile pace you are landing on your heel and still have a relatively long contact time with the ground. Racing flats would probably work better.
what pace do you think you should start wearing spikes?
I don't think there is a fixed speed. I am old and injury prone and won't wear them for anything longer than 800m, and I'd be going substantially faster than 6min/miles. In my opinion the decision depends on age, form, distance and how much training has been done in spikes before. There are massive benefits wearing spikes once the running form transitions from long-distance to middle-distance and sprints; that usually means, on distances from the mile down. The benefits tend to become smaller and smaller as the distance grows, in particular for slower runners.
On the other hand, unless you are highly trained (and young), wearing spikes takes a toll on your calves and Achilles; on longer distances the micro tears can accumulate during the race to the point of negating the benefit of wearing spikes.
Roughly speaking, a very good and experienced runner in his prime is going to benefit from spikes even up to the 10K, but he/she is going to run faster than 6min/miles anyway. I would not recommend to a novice or older runner wearing spikes for anything longer than 800m. The injury risk is just too high. Most of these runners would still run faster than 6 min/mile pace on these short distances. Intermediate runners will typically wear spikes up to the mile, most of these runners will also run faster than 6min/mile on the mile.
In summary, I am sure there will be exceptions, but I don't see many clear-cut cases where it would be worth wearing spikes for someone running slower than 6min/mile. One case could be made for the 2 miles, where a younger runner, going slower than 6min/mile, may still see benefits large enough to be worth the relatively small injury risk.
At the end of the day, that is what I recommend, but whatever works is fine, I don't care what shoes people is wearing.
As long as you're not a heel striker, spikes will cut your time down. I have not worn a spike in 30 years until 2 summers ago. It still helps a lot even at my slow pace. And I only wore the low end Nike one. And unlike the old days, you don't have to worry about getting injured. Adidas Avanti spike is basically a road flat with spikes up front.
This post was edited 16 seconds after it was posted.
I typically don’t care, but it’s annoying when hobbyjoggers/slow HS runners bought all the Vaporflies and Dragonflies so I had to wait for them to be restocked. Look, I’m running low 9:0x for the 3200 - I deserve a pair of dragonflies much more than someone running 11:30
How much of a difference did you notice at each of those paces? I'm guessing it's going to be something like this:
4:00/mile pace in superspikes = 4:12/mile pace in trainers
5:00/mile pace in superspikes = 5:07/mile pace in trainers
6:00/mile pace in superspikes = 6:03/mile pace in trainers
7:00/mile pace in superspikes = 7:02/mile pace in trainers
So the benefit is still there, but it's marginal.
It's an old thread, but this is relevant:
"the shoes do more for you, the faster you run. In the study, runners running at 9:40 mile pace improved their running economy by .9 percent, on average, while they improved by 1.6 percent at 8:03 mile pace."
With that said, 6:00/mile pace is definitely enough to see a noticeable benefit in the Dragonflies. It's probably worth 5 sec/mile over regular trainers.
I typically don’t care, but it’s annoying when hobbyjoggers/slow HS runners bought all the Vaporflies and Dragonflies so I had to wait for them to be restocked. Look, I’m running low 9:0x for the 3200 - I deserve a pair of dragonflies much more than someone running 11:30
The free market says that the 11:30 runner deserves those Dragonflies more than you because they had the money and the courage to make the transaction while stock was available. The bold seize the opportunity while the timid wait their turn.
This is why historically the U.S. sucks in distance running.
Unless the track is wet and slippery, this is probably correct. At 6min/mile pace you are landing on your heel and still have a relatively long contact time with the ground. Racing flats would probably work better.
At 4:30 pace most people are heel striking too. Which part of your foot hits the ground first has very little to do with how fast or efficient you are.
The Dragonfly, in any event, is designed with significant heel cushioning. That's kind of the point of the shoe. It's a racing flat with spikes attached.
True, but you are assuming they bought shoes to replace training? That's a weird take. Who in their right mind isnt gong to buy one shoe that is faster than another, even if by 3 seconds? What's the downside? Track is already the cheapest sport there is. Are you going to ride a heavy bike just because you have not maxed out your aerobic development?
Dragonflies were designed to take down something-thousand meter WRs. With that in mind, your 4:40 mile or whatever you run isn’t worth their purchase and use either.
Why not just let people buy and use gear that make them feel good about themselves?
Why do people need expensive gear to feel good about themselves?
I guess we have to define "expensive"? I keep hearing that. Context: One pair of figure skates for a 13 y/o are 1500$, junior hockey skates- 300-700$. Excluding $1000 a month for ice etc... Now on the other end is track. $150 for sweet spikes vs $60-80? Seems like nickel and diming a kid to say the dragons are too expensive. If they like em, they look cool, and save 2 seconds? Why not.
