So because he doesn't run a PB after one year (with injuries) he should completely change his training situation ???
Going to Stanford or NAU makes no sense for Hobbs:
- The stanford or NAU coaches have never coached someone to a 3:29 1500 / Olympic Bronze. - The stanford/NAU MD groups are not as strong as the VNTC
- His current coach has got him to 1:46/2:16/3:34, making him the fastest U20 north american ever
You are putting WAY too much stock into January performances. Do you know what Jake Wightman ran in January 2022 ? A 7:50 3k ...
It’s not just about January. It’s about January and all the 12 months in 2022 that Kessler failed to improve his 1500 PR. How many more months without a 1500 PR need to pass by before you guys realize he has made a terrible mistake??
When referencing Nick Willis, you conveniently omitted the fact that he ran in the NCAA! Just like Centro did. Why would Kessler not want to follow that proven path to success?
US high school studs who are reading this: go to college and run in the NCAA! Do you want to be like Olympic gold medalist Matt Centrowitz, or do you want to be like Drew Hunter? It’s as simple as that.
Huh? The longer he goes without improving the more logical his decision becomes. He will earn millions while he would have earned almost nothing after college. What does Centro have to do with it? Your statement is silly that every high school kid can win a gold. More top high school runners stagnate in college than what make huge improvements.
So because he doesn't run a PB after one year (with injuries) he should completely change his training situation ???
Going to Stanford or NAU makes no sense for Hobbs:
- The stanford or NAU coaches have never coached someone to a 3:29 1500 / Olympic Bronze. - The stanford/NAU MD groups are not as strong as the VNTC
- His current coach has got him to 1:46/2:16/3:34, making him the fastest U20 north american ever
You are putting WAY too much stock into January performances. Do you know what Jake Wightman ran in January 2022 ? A 7:50 3k ...
It’s not just about January. It’s about January and all the 12 months in 2022 that Kessler failed to improve his 1500 PR. How many more months without a 1500 PR need to pass by before you guys realize he has made a terrible mistake??
When referencing Nick Willis, you conveniently omitted the fact that he ran in the NCAA! Just like Centro did. Why would Kessler not want to follow that proven path to success?
US high school studs who are reading this: go to college and run in the NCAA! Do you want to be like Olympic gold medalist Matt Centrowitz, or do you want to be like Drew Hunter? It’s as simple as that.
And all three 1500m medallists at worlds this summer didn't run in the NCAA ... There is not one path to success and I don't know why you're so fixated on the NCAA.
Concretely, what will the NCAA offer Hobbs? The only thing I can think of is that he is missing out on NCAA championships. I believe he can still gain tactical experience from racing USAs and high performance races in the US and Europe.
- he has an NCAA level coach (probably better than almost all NCAA coaches tbh)
- he has a better training group than almost any NCAA team
- he has access to the UM facilities
- he can gain tactical experience in european races / USAs
- he is making way more money than any NCAA athlete (NIL didn't exist when he chose to go
- he can go to school as a pro
-he is making way more money than any NCAA athlete. The financial opportunity cost of going NCAA instead of going pro is just too high ...
Huh? The longer he goes without improving the more logical his decision becomes. He will earn millions while he would have earned almost nothing after college. What does Centro have to do with it? Your statement is silly that every high school kid can win a gold. More top high school runners stagnate in college than what make huge improvements.
He could have gotten a NIL deal so he could have run in the NCAA and still made money.
Look at all the Americans this century who have won an Olympic or World Championship medal in the 800-marathon and tally up how many competed in the NCAA and how many didn’t. The results will speak volumes.
Huh? The longer he goes without improving the more logical his decision becomes. He will earn millions while he would have earned almost nothing after college. What does Centro have to do with it? Your statement is silly that every high school kid can win a gold. More top high school runners stagnate in college than what make huge improvements.
He could have gotten a NIL deal so he could have run in the NCAA and still made money.
Look at all the Americans this century who have won an Olympic or World Championship medal in the 800-marathon and tally up how many competed in the NCAA and how many didn’t. The results will speak volumes.
You’ve really demonstrated the benifits of a Stanford education in this thread
You’re right, it’s probably too late for him to run in the NCAA now. It’s a lost cause. I’ll just be grateful that the Young brothers, the Sahlman brothers, Martin, Flatt, Sumner, Tuohy, Valby, Cook, Willis, Whittaker, and Riggs all made better decisions for their running futures.
You’re right, it’s probably too late for him to run in the NCAA now. It’s a lost cause. I’ll just be grateful that the Young brothers, the Sahlman brothers, Martin, Flatt, Sumner, Tuohy, Valby, Cook, Willis, Whittaker, and Riggs all made better decisions for their running futures.
Wow, are you going to be proven wrong..and it's too bad, you have so much misdirected passion!!
You’re right, it’s probably too late for him to run in the NCAA now. It’s a lost cause. I’ll just be grateful that the Young brothers, the Sahlman brothers, Martin, Flatt, Sumner, Tuohy, Valby, Cook, Willis, Whittaker, and Riggs all made better decisions for their running futures.
You didn't explain why the NCAA would be better for him though 🤷
He is earning millions. He wouldn't have gotten an NIL deal. How much is Bosley earning? Hicks? Running in a uniform for the team being paid bonuses to win is worth much more than a likeness of the athlete. They are bound to wear their team uniform in competitions. As far as why more Americans who are medalists have gone through the NCAA, it us because 99.9% of top high school kids don't get a pro contract. That is like picking 2 Harvard grads and comparing their salaries to hundreds of thousands of Ohio State grads and saying there are more CEOs who went to Ohio State than the Harvard grads. That doesn't mean the Harvard guys would have a better chance in life by attending Ohio State.
You’re right, it’s probably too late for him to run in the NCAA now. It’s a lost cause. I’ll just be grateful that the Young brothers, the Sahlman brothers, Martin, Flatt, Sumner, Tuohy, Valby, Cook, Willis, Whittaker, and Riggs all made better decisions for their running futures.
I could be wrong on this, but NIL wasn't available yet at point KESSLER would have gone to college. He probably would have gone the ncaa route now.
You’re right, it’s probably too late for him to run in the NCAA now. It’s a lost cause. I’ll just be grateful that the Young brothers, the Sahlman brothers, Martin, Flatt, Sumner, Tuohy, Valby, Cook, Willis, Whittaker, and Riggs all made better decisions for their running futures.
You didn't explain why the NCAA would be better for him though 🤷
One of the most under emphasized pieces of this, is who coaches him. Ron helped keep Willis upright for 20+ years counting college, he also coached Kevin Sullivan 3:31.x and 3:50.x mile,r when that was some real running. Nate Brannen 3:34 and 3:52 13+ years ago. You are a parent betting with your kids' future and life, do you trust Ron..or someone who has never gotten ONE 1500M runner to that level? In your examples of Stanford and NAU.
I don't know about most on here, but I am trusting Ron, and he is amazingly witty to be around, and he has been around the block for over 40 years of doing this. I really do not know why or how this is even debatable? Step back for one minute and be honest , rather than belligerent, and also just plain wrong. If Kessler does not run substantially better than last year, I will surely come on here and admit I am wrong, I have done it many times on these boards.I also think you are conveniently trivializing his 2:16.46 1000M, a very very good mark and 6th All Time World U20 mark, THIRD performer, All Time. And a pretty solid 1:46.87 800M.
Step back and think about it.Hocker was legit dinged up last year, so was Hobbs. Hocker ran almost 4 seconds slower than his 3:31. x PR at 3:35.x, what say you about his numerical regression? 1 plus second slower at 800M as well, so, he had zero improvement. Like I have said and I am fortunate , very, to know and talk to for my money two of THE best coaches Historically in MD/distance running, and they both say unequivocally that progression is NOT always linear year over year. I would trust the two guys I know well above any poster on these two threads.
You’re right, it’s probably too late for him to run in the NCAA now. It’s a lost cause. I’ll just be grateful that the Young brothers, the Sahlman brothers, Martin, Flatt, Sumner, Tuohy, Valby, Cook, Willis, Whittaker, and Riggs all made better decisions for their running futures.
I could be wrong on this, but NIL wasn't available yet at point KESSLER would have gone to college. He probably would have gone the ncaa route now.
With most respect.....maybe, but I really highly doubt it. No one was turning the training over to anyone other than Ron, the guy who took him from a 4:16 1600 to 3:57.1 at 17 and 3:34.x at 18. No way no how! I would not have, that is for certain. I really do doubt it. And I am telling you..call me when the first College NIL runner from 800 up gets anything , anywhere near a deal that Kessler commanded. Not happening, again, if I am wrong..I will admit it.
You're an idiot. Kessler's not looking to peak in 2 months for indoors, the Stanford guys are. Plus, can we see some splits if you're going to compare the two races? Kessler closed in 56, what did the Stanford guys close in?
What a stupid question. I would hope someone can close faster if they ran the first 3 laps slower. Pretty basic concept, pal.
There is no medal or consolation prize for someone who finishes fourth and has the fastest close. The only thing that matters is finishing time. 3 Stanford runners ran the mile yesterday faster than Kessler. You can make all the excuses you want but facts are facts.
"3 Stanford runners ran the mile yesterday faster..."
...yes, because they all need to run fast in order to qualify for indoor nationals and only have a few meets to do that.
Meanwhile, Kessler is winning pro races by sitting and kicking (:56 in his mile race and a :26 for his 1k) and beating the likes of Morgan Beadlescomb (3:52 miler) and Charlie Grice (3:30 1500) who are each significantly faster than everyone else cited here.
You didn't explain why the NCAA would be better for him though 🤷
My apologies. I’ll share my explanation now for any high school studs who are weighing their options:
1. The NCAA is a proven American talent development system. Look at Meb, Rupp, Centro, Fisher, Brazier, Hocker, Teare, Hoppel, Murphy, Mantz, Kastor, Flanagan, Simpson, Coburn, Sisson, Cranny, Schweizer, Mu, and many, many others.
2. The high school to pro route is risky and not nearly as proven. Wilson and Jager did well but look at Hunter, Cain, and Efraimson. Ouch
3. Running for top level programs like NAU, Stanford, and NC State (for women) enables you to train with excellent athletes in your own age group, develop friendships with your peers, and enjoy a healthy transition into adulthood.
4. By running in college, you can learn racing tactics against people at your level and, more importantly, learn how to win. If you run in the pros straight out of high school, you’re just going to learn how to lose by getting your doors blown off by pros who are at a higher level than you. Look at Kessler. Last year he could have been running in the NCAA 1500 final and vying for a high place. Instead he got bounced in the heats of the US championships.
5. In college, you can develop gradually without the pressure of a pro sponsor evaluating your results or docking your pay.
6. In college, you can experience the thrill of winning a team championship and running for something greater than yourself. Look at how happy the runners for NAU and NC State looked after winning the team titles at last fall’s NCAA cross country championships.
7. In the NCAA, you can be a star, maybe even as a freshman. If you go pro early, you’ll just be an also-ran.
8. In the NCAA, you have a set planned racing schedule that lets you know what to expect. As a pro, you’ll be at the mercy of how good your agent is at getting you into meets, which is unpredictable and volatile.
9. By running in the NCAA, you’ll develop an affinity with your college that’s much stronger and long lasting than what’s possible in any pro group that could dissolve in a year or two. Look at the Nike Oregon Project.
10. By running in the NCAA, you’re making a natural progression from one level to the next. If you jump straight to the pros, you’ll be skipping an important step in your development. People who skip steps tend to trip and get hurt.
Once you’ve proven you can dominate NCAA competition, then it makes sense to go pro. Not before.
You didn't explain why the NCAA would be better for him though 🤷
My apologies. I’ll share my explanation now for any high school studs who are weighing their options:
1. The NCAA is a proven American talent development system. Look at Meb, Rupp, Centro, Fisher, Brazier, Hocker, Teare, Hoppel, Murphy, Mantz, Kastor, Flanagan, Simpson, Coburn, Sisson, Cranny, Schweizer, Mu, and many, many others.
2. The high school to pro route is risky and not nearly as proven. Wilson and Jager did well but look at Hunter, Cain, and Efraimson. Ouch
3. Running for top level programs like NAU, Stanford, and NC State (for women) enables you to train with excellent athletes in your own age group, develop friendships with your peers, and enjoy a healthy transition into adulthood.
4. By running in college, you can learn racing tactics against people at your level and, more importantly, learn how to win. If you run in the pros straight out of high school, you’re just going to learn how to lose by getting your doors blown off by pros who are at a higher level than you. Look at Kessler. Last year he could have been running in the NCAA 1500 final and vying for a high place. Instead he got bounced in the heats of the US championships.
5. In college, you can develop gradually without the pressure of a pro sponsor evaluating your results or docking your pay.
6. In college, you can experience the thrill of winning a team championship and running for something greater than yourself. Look at how happy the runners for NAU and NC State looked after winning the team titles at last fall’s NCAA cross country championships.
7. In the NCAA, you can be a star, maybe even as a freshman. If you go pro early, you’ll just be an also-ran.
8. In the NCAA, you have a set planned racing schedule that lets you know what to expect. As a pro, you’ll be at the mercy of how good your agent is at getting you into meets, which is unpredictable and volatile.
9. By running in the NCAA, you’ll develop an affinity with your college that’s much stronger and long lasting than what’s possible in any pro group that could dissolve in a year or two. Look at the Nike Oregon Project.
10. By running in the NCAA, you’re making a natural progression from one level to the next. If you jump straight to the pros, you’ll be skipping an important step in your development. People who skip steps tend to trip and get hurt.
Once you’ve proven you can dominate NCAA competition, then it makes sense to go pro. Not before.
And you step in a Gopher hole training for some meaningless(in the grand scheme of MD and distance running) XC races, help me out here? How much money do you make from there?. Running IS his job, the sooner you can make meaningful money at that, the better, and call me when any one of your Stanford super prospects gets a deal anywhere near size and scope of what Kessler got. I would say 50% or more of can't miss College Prospects, never achieve the level predicted for them and certainly not any life changing money. Talk to any real coach worth their salt, and if they were honest they would tell you take the life changing guaranteed money ASAP if it's right, the future is promised to NO ONE , especially as an American Collegiate prospect.
What a stupid question. I would hope someone can close faster if they ran the first 3 laps slower. Pretty basic concept, pal.
There is no medal or consolation prize for someone who finishes fourth and has the fastest close. The only thing that matters is finishing time. 3 Stanford runners ran the mile yesterday faster than Kessler. You can make all the excuses you want but facts are facts.
"3 Stanford runners ran the mile yesterday faster..."
...yes, because they all need to run fast in order to qualify for indoor nationals and only have a few meets to do that.
Meanwhile, Kessler is winning pro races by sitting and kicking (:56 in his mile race and a :26 for his 1k) and beating the likes of Morgan Beadlescomb (3:52 miler) and Charlie Grice (3:30 1500) who are each significantly faster than everyone else cited here.
Some valid points but Kessler made the better choice. He is set for life while he may have broken his leg the first day of college or burned out like Maton or Slagowski. If my boss gives me a contract to do a job that I love for 10 years and guarantees to pay me $3M, I am not turning it down for an internship down the street at a company with a younger larger staff paying me $50K .
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