foam rolling, stretching, strengthening making me MORE injured?

I started in Brooks Ghost. I now do my long runs in Pegasus, which are 10 mm drop. One of the best things I did the past year was started to switch up to different pairs of shoes. Try Hokas or Kinvaras. Something with a much lower heel drop.

Start to work them into your cycle - very, very slowly. A couple miles, easy to start, and eventually you can rotate them at will into your runs. I really feel like switching up my shoes like this has made me a much more resilient runner.

i definitely don’t overstride, i looked at that when i first started getting injured a ton. my form might still have something wrong with it, though. i’m trying to find a good PT to see. i live in westchester county NY, anyone know any good PTs around?

Rotating shoes as others have said is an excellent thing to get into the habit of doing.

I'll also add that it's easy to overstretch and overroll- think of your legs as rubber bands. If you keep stretching rubber bands and/or stretch them too hard, they lose their elasticity, their snap.

Stretch with purpose, but don't over do it.

Lastly- you have virtually no lifetime miles accumulated, which is massively exciting! This means you will improve quickly, but it also means your body, even after a year or two, is still getting used to running. Be patient, keep learning!

this is something i’ve never tried! however, i mentioned this just now responding to someone else but i’m sure i don’t overstride. i see myself running by in window reflections of stores in town sometimes and i’ve seen lots of racing videos. i’ve even taken videos of myself. my heels aren’t in front of my body, they’re lined up straight when i land.

still, i sometimes feel “weird” running and like i cant just run naturally without thinking i have something wrong with my form. i feel forced and not normal on runs sometimes, like i’m on autopilot.

i think i’ll try this! but i’m wondering if i could do some barefoot running on a treadmill? i live in NY so it can get cold and snowy, and i don’t want my feet out in freezing weather or in the snow.

YES. i absolutely hate the elliptical. (only cross training i do a lot, but i’ve tried others which are even worse) it drives me insane. i also hate doing weights and stuff, so i guess i’m like you and that i just love running. i’ll try barefoot and maybe try to add cross training even though i hate it, too.

Lots of long winded answers.

You've been running for only a year.

If you're getting hurt, run less.

Eat better.

Sleep better.

When you can run more, then run more.

Find a nice bouncy pebax shoe w/no plate. Pebax is amazing.

Alan

thank you for this! i feel like giving up but everyone here is so helpful, and i want to try all the advice. i’m looking into getting my pelvis fixed by someone

yeah, it’s definitely worth switching from my clunky brooks ghosts. never run in anything else (except racing flats on race days). are saucony kinvaras an everyday trainer? or more for faster stuff? i don’t really know any shoes outside brooks.

- can anyone tell me a good, lower drop trainer that’s super versatile and can be used for slower and faster?

- or do i get two low drop shoes, one for slow days and one for fast days?

- or should i have a higher drop for slow days and a lower drop for fast days?

basically i want to try out different shoes and get a shoe rotation in but i’m not sure where to go with it. neutral shoes are best for me.

Runners often focus on increasing mobility and flexibility, which is good advice UNLESS you are hypermobile. If you are hypermobile, strengthening is essential, and stretching should be kept to a minimum, with perhaps only some dynamic stretches to warm up. I was diagnosed with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome hypermobility in my 30s, and it explained so many problems I had as a teen and in my 20s.

You can use Kinvaras for an everyday trainer, but they are a relatively low cushion option which probably isn't the best idea for everyday use for someone dealing with constant injury. They have 4mm drop which would be a big change from the Ghosts to the other end of the drop spectrum suddenly.

The Saucony Ride has cushion more similar to the Ghost but a lower drop (8 mm) yet not as massive of a change from the Ghost.

My first year of high school, I ran in Asics trainers similar to the Ghost with a 12mm drop and had peroneal tendonitis, then achilles issues through the next year, missing much of my freshman track season. I added a prehab routine (details later) which kept me running although I still dealt with aches and pains occasionally, but eventually I switched to the Rides and kicked away the injury cycle. I used Rides for both workouts and runs for a couple years in high school, so they are definitely versatile and good for both. Eventually since I found Saucony to be working for me I also got some Kinvaras for faster workouts when I got better as a runner and started to want something more closely designed for that.

Especially as a former gymnast, you may be overstretching. There was a girl on my team in high school with a gymnastics background who needed little stretching (dynamic warmup exercises were fine though) but a good bit of strength (mostly bodyweight) work to stay healthy.

I did a simple bodyweight workout post-run for prehab 2-3x and eventually everyday in hs: similar to the SAM routine you might be able to find if you search it (can't post links here). Leg lifts, clams, donkey kicks, some core, but mostly just good bloodflow promotion honestly. In college I still do this in addition to other stuff and it helps significantly with maintaining proper muscle tension, which is neither too loose or too tight (either cause issues, and stretching will actually hurt if you are too loose). Some strength work promotes proper tightness, which is a different kind than you feel injured in while running, as that is primarily impact-related or from tendons being pulled too hard.

Hope this helps. Best of luck to you. I was able to kick my injury cycle and am now running for a college team. I still wear Saucony Rides for my easy run shoe and haven't had significant injury issues in two years. My personal recommendations in summary to you would be to stretch less (no static stretching, keep dynamic movements), add a light bodyweight strength routine a few days a week to everyday (build into it!) similar to SAM if you can find that (weights is ok but the benefit vs risk therein is probably not super worth it at your level), and definitely work on switching over from the Ghosts - build your new shoe in like every other day for a week or two at first, then every day and see if that helps. It won't be completely immediate but you will hopefully actually start recovering. The Ride is a great easy day option and if you want a workout shoe as well Kinvaras are awesome. It's likely all the new stuff you're throwing onto your body at once is stressing it out some, so keep it simple - a little bodyweight strength, some dynamic movement, rolling if you wish, and help it out with the shoes. Cut back on mileage if you need to and build in slowly; it's annoying but once you kick this cycle you'll be free to build up (smartly) for years to come if you do it right.

I'm copying this from a previous post and emphasizing in bold type; because this is your BEST bet to get to the source of your issues:

From previous post:

"Most people have no idea what ideal running form looks like, even coaches from what I've found. What people see when they watch someone else run is the compensation pattern that the runner has developed to get around a particular muscle weakness. They can't really know what advice to give since the true source of weakness is being masked. The most efficient way to get straightened out (or if absolutely nothing else works) is to get examined by a PT/chiro knowledgeable in gait biomechanics who can do an exam to test for muscle weakness and figure out the cascading interactions, but good ones are hard to come by."

End quote:

Hats off to the poster who said this. You need a footstrike/gait analysis from someone like a sports podiatrist or sports chiropractor (not a cookie cutter chiro, but one with FAKTR or ART certification and who regularly works with runners of varying abilities). Most runner injury problems like you're describing, start with how your feet (bones, tendons, etc) are contacting the ground and forming/splaying out as force comes down from body mass. Something's not right. A slight leg length discrepancy (say less than 1/8in) won't cause the constant problems. Something else is going on and my hunch is an abnormal footstrike being exacerbated by shoes your wearing. Your lower leg (tibia and fibula and all muscles associated) and on up into your pelvis/lower back are adjusting to an improper force displacement. What the other poster called "cascading". The return energy from the ground isn't being properly distributed equally up through the legs into lower core like it should. Thus you keep getting all kinds of imbalance and compensation type injuries from ankles to glutes, etc. So if I were your coach we'd hunt down someone to do a footstrike/gait analysis on you, then start looking into some correction/prehabilitative exercises to add in. But do not attempt to keep training through injuries. You'll eventually end up with worse problems. You can get or keep cardiovascular fitness from swimming or pool running or stationary cycling until you get this figured out. Best of success and I'll say a prayer for you. The constant injury cycle can be demoralizing!

wow, this was so helpful! i’m so grateful for everyone helping me, it means so much that random people are trying. i do a lot of static butt, calf, hamstring and quad (so basically everything) stretching, and it never makes me feel better. you’re probably right i should stop!

i hate my weights routine because it’s annoying and makes me feel even worse, so body weight sounds much much better. i do something sort of similar to the said SAM routine sometimes, with lateral banded leg raises, banded clamshells, and glute bridges. but then i proceed to crush myself with a weight routine on some days that makes my legs heavy, then excessively stretch and roll out (all wrong and i’ve realized a problem).

and thanks a bunch for the info on the sauconys! i’m gonna head to the running store in my town as soon as i can!

again, so helpful and i really appreciate you taking your time to write this for me! so a PT, podiatrist, or chiropractor do a gait analysis? and if the discrepancy is significant and proven to be causing a problem, the same person could help with this, too? sorry i have a lot of stupid questions, i just don’t know much.

does anyone know anyone good in the westchester county (near NYC) area of NY?

You can do the front load test. See if your body naturally tilts forward by running up a steep, long-ish hill a few times. If you catch yourself looking down and leaning forward a lot that’s a big sign you have a miss-balance that can lead to shin/ankle injuries.

overstacked shoes and weak core/back cause this usually.

Any of the three could help (but a sports PT or SPORTS podiatrist would be my recommendation, there are some great sports chiros out there but chiros are also the most likely to be dodgy/unhelpful - make sure anyone you see is properly certified).

With a good sports PT (just going to roll all under the name of PT as that's probably the most common and shortest to type), they will ask about what's been going on and then perform some tests/have you do some exercises with them so they can feel what may be weak. This may also involve a gait analysis depending on what they're thinking (you should also be able to just ask to have a gait analysis done by them as well if not). The core piece is them feeling out your weaknesses/any compensation gait analysis or not. Then from there you'll get whatever exercises they deem corrective for your situation (you should also tell them what you've been doing for general prehab prior AND what your plans are for changing it going forward, and keep doing that unless told otherwise). It's likely they'll also mention shoes with the shin splints issue.

You may get some level of rest recommended with the shin splints in particular, depending on how bad it is. Don't freak out - if it's a good PT ask lots of questions and they'll give you lots and lots of ways to keep your fitness, exercises for your specific situation, and a timeline for when you can build back into exercises/running.

The biggest thing with a PT is that they can give you a specific individual plan and exercises to address whatever your actual core deficiencies may be. But stay engaged yourself and make changes to your routine and shoes like you've described too - professional help and self proactivity joined together give you the best shot to get over all this sooner rather than later. Your planned changes in #53 sound very good and band exercises are awesome - lots of strength gains to be had especially in dynamic running-specific ranges without the wear and tear/other issues that can come with a weight routine. When you go to the shoe store they may want to do a gait analysis on you but don't put too much faith in that one - shoe store employees don't usually really know what they're talking about in terms of kinetic analysis.

thanks! now i’m leaning towards seeing a sports PT, but how do i find a good one? is there a way/something to look for on the website before going?

i saw a podiatrist (i forget if sports or not) last year, and she was incompetent and was trying to get me to wear orthotics and max stability shoes which is exactly what i don’t need and what makes things worse. are SPORTS PTs generally better? or are some incompetent like this?

Or....wear more cushioned running shoes....all your issues look like they would be corrected by first taking time off then wearing more cushioned shoes.

Your injuries are all overuse....so rest.

Alan

Finding a good one is a challenge. The only two that I'm aware of are go by "the Gait Guys" on social media and have a super in-depth gait biomechanics podcast. They're located in Chicago and in Dillon Colorado, so not close to NYC. You might contact them to see if they have a recommended doc NYC.

I would tend to avoid podiatrists as well since the issue is probably multifaceted, extending beyond the foot. An orthoitc may be the answer, but it probably isn't the first thing that a gait expert would try.

I don't believe "overuse" is a thing unless you're running extreme mileage. It's more like misuse due to mechanics/muscle imbalance.

It is wonderful to see so many sincerely concerned runners helping runners with their particular pain issues.

Your post caught my eye concerning your particular pain issues and the seemingly subpar results of efforts using rest, stretching and strength protocols as well as shoe choices. I can understand your frustration. When you finally address the primary cause of the pain, your repetitive use injuries will be resolved.

I love running and have been since my freshman year in high school. I am now approaching 68 laps around the sun and the journey has taught me "Gold dipped in Platinum" lessions about repetitive use injury and how to resolve them. I have been a specialist in myofascial pain and dysfunction for 16 years professionally, working with athletes from the high school, college, pro, Olympic and world record holder levels and I am an instructor of bodywork modalities at Healing Hands School of Holistic Health. The only reason why I mention my qualifications is so you can get an idea of my experience to add weight on what I am going to teach you as well as other runners reading this thread.

Physical Therapists, chiropractors, acupuncturists,etc., are wonderful in what they know and do to help athletes recover from injury but so often there is a missing step to recovery and that is identifying and directly manipulating and eliminating the cause of pain which are knots of habitually contracted muscle fiber areas called Trigger Points that cause a predictable pain pattern. When trigger points are present in the muscle, stretching and strength protocols are counter-indicated until these trigger points are reduced or eliminated. That is why often times, athletes feel worse when trying to initially solve their repetitive use injury by doing macro-stretching and strength work.

There are 5 steps to recovery : 1) Identify the trigger points and connective tissue adhesions that are causing limited range of motion and the pain pattern and restoring full range of motion through direct manipulation 2) Stretching protocols 3) Strength Work 4) Endurance 5) Maintenance. Most clinics are great at steps 2 , 3, 4.

Now, you can begin to understand why professional athletes are steering toward regular bodywork as part of their journey, self-treatment or/and bodywork sessions by a knowledgeable therapist. Also, more physical therapy and chiropractor clinics are hiring therapists that are trained in myofascial pain and dysfunction.

So, let's get into the op's pain issues. "Shin Splints" is an umbrella term used when pain presents on either the medial or lateral side of the tibia. Pain on the medial side is caused by trigger points in the soleus muscle, mainly. Pain on the lateral side is caused by trigger points in the tibialis anterior (compartmental syndrome), mainly. Your ankle issues are mainly due to trigger points in the fibularis longus, brevis, and tertius, as well as the extensor digitorum longus. You can eliminate these trigger points by consistent direct manipulation with a lacrosse ball on the floor, putting your posterior and lateral lower leg muscles on top of the ball and moving your leg side to side (medial and lateral) and up and down (distal and proximal). Also, there are other tools that are specific enough to be effective like the Theracane Max. Foam rollers are great for general work but not optimal enough for specific work. Do this before and after you run for 5 minutes or so. Your plantar fasciitis can be resolved by restoring suppleness to your calf muscles plus rolling your foot on the ball towards your heel and side to side. Do not put pressure and roll away from the heel. The fascia is trying to heal on the heel bone (calcaneus) so we are trying to help lengthen the fascia towards the heel. Also, purchasing a night boot to keep your ankle from plantar flexion while you sleep will help with the healing process.

Those of you that want to have self-empowerment in solving your repetitive use injuries, I recommend a book that I use in the classroom called "Trigger Point Therapy Workbook, 3rd Edition" by Clair and Amber Davies. This book is the doorway to solving your repetitive use pain issues. Make sure it's the 3rd edition. Here is a link:

newharbinger.com

Book Details – New Harbinger Publications, Inc

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Trigger point therapy is one of the fastest-growing and most effective pain therapies in the world. Medical doctors, chiropractors, physical therapists, and...

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