J. Wightman vs J. Ingebrigtsen Training

“The worst thing I can do is walk around a department store. That is just such a dreadful waste of energy.” ~Seb Coe

Watched Jake's most recent training video training in Flagstaff. He was doing a hill session in which he was suffering. I don't know of any elites that don't do some sort of hill work in their training. I do recall one so called expert on LR saying you don't need hills. Jakob does his 20x200m hill. They all do hill training.

Yes, and he was likely pushing 15mmol in an early winter base session.

“I think one of the major benefits I had was that Peter did not come from an athletic background. Now, some people could say, “Well, the sessions he sets are hard simply because he doesn’t know what it’s like to have to run those kind of sessions.” I look at that as a distinct advantage.” ~Seb Coe

The hardest part of coaching is you know that you have to prescribe some very intense sessions for 800/1500m athletes. Peter Coe probably never knew what it felt like to be at 15mml. Most people on the plant don't ever subject themselves to such.

Coe's training lead to coaches adopting the low mileage high intensity training that ruined distance running in the 90s. Once we returned to high mileage US runners became much more competitive on the world stage... Every WR holder has done high mileage. But Coe and Lagat did low mileage... And everyone else did high mileage.

And consider the weekly mileage of Donavan Brazier.

I think there is something to the idea that the 800m/1500m guy running lower, but higher intensity mileage, is physiologically training muscle fibers that act metabolically different than the muscle fibers of a high volume 1500/5000m type.

Yep I trained in the late 80's and early 90's started running 90-100 miles a week and surprised a few people at races. The female I coach now runs 160-170k per week. Everyone runs a lot and those that can handle the volume reap the rewards.

I'd agree with the stuff about horwill and by association BMC. The whole horwill obsession in UK endurance ,due respect, seems almost embarrassing and it's interesting that Tim hutchings has been candid enough to bring some reality check to the mythology. From coaching experience it is clear that horwill's approach had a high attrition rate through injury, hardly surprising since the formula,and I choose that word specifically, involved running extremely hard 3 days per 7 days and his "steady" on other days equated to just slightly slower than HMP, actual or theoretical.

But is she a 800m/1500m runner?

Probably well over >90% of the people that visit this forum, including its founders, typically ran/run the 5k or greater race distance. That is one of the reasons there is a recoil backlash when presenting such ideas like Peter Coe actually meant what he said about mileage.

Brazier is an 800m runner. He's only gone 3:35 in the 1500. He'd be better off with 400/800 training than 800/1500. If you aren't in the 13:00 or less 5k neighborhood you're going to struggle at elite 1500.

And is he a 800m runner due, in part, to high intensity training, or is it strictly genetics?

Remember, Jake’s parents were marathoners, but speed-training was fostered at an early age. So alternatively, maybe he too might have been a decent 5000m runner, given years of Jakob’s training (but at the sacrifice of some of his 800m speed.) Same with Coe. The type of training engenders the type of epigenetic expression.

She is 5k/10k. Where I live a talented runner ran a 3:49 mile and he wasn't running near 100miles a week. Everyone is different. Talent and the ability to handle the training without injury are the most important qualities of world class athletes.

I trained with Abdi Bile in 1986/87 he didn't ever come close to the volume of Jakob. In saying that he trained very hard. Everyone's path is different.

I don't know about that, but I agree that if you tried to turn Brazier into a 1500 runner his performance would nosedive and he would would get worse at both events.

In terms of mileage, with 800 runners it has been my experience that less is often more. 30-35 w is a good weekly mileage during base phase and then settle into 20-30 during the competition phases. You'll have some 8/15 guys like Clayton Murphy, Nick Symmonds or Makhloufi who need some higher base mileage, but they're not in the majority.

Hi coahc, I'm curious about the training of Abdi Bile. Would really appreciate it if you provide a little bit more details on him. I've read that he's very injury prone (3 consecutive 50 mile weeks and he'll get injured) and did a lot of aqua jogging instead.

Well this post is on Jake and JaKob but a little insight from what I can remember from so many years ago from his winter cross country build up at GMU.

Monday 1 hour progressive ie 6:20 mile pace to 5 min mile pace

Tuesday 6-8x800 on grass over rolling hills at cemetary

Wednesday 1 hour progressive

Thursday easy run + drills + 5x300m fast 38-40

Friday off or easy run

Saturday Hills 3x (2x800 + 1x400)

Sunday easy 60-80 minutes

He was injured from December to March in the year he won World champs and yes he was doing pool running then. 3 weeks after starting running he ran 1:47 for 800m in early April and his 1:46.0 for the last 800m of 1987 World Champs is still fastest ever. A very good guy.

In my experience as a 5000m sub-elite/county medallist 3000/5000m British athlete, who moved to Germany and then The Netherlands mid career, there was far too little emphasis on speed compared to typical British training in those countries. I have never ran so slow on the track, in fact I was encouraged to run slowly. Endless slow laps with the emphasis on holding the exact same slow pace the whole way. I have no idea what they were supposed to achieve. I ended up training on my own to a programme set by a UK coach. I can understand why those countries now produce so few top athletes.

The standard British club set up emphasises speed, speed endurance and having fun for child athletes. The speed endurance is gradually increased with harder workouts and supplemented by cross country in the winter. Jake Wightman comes from a background of running track and cross country from a young age. In 2008, for example, as an under 15 athlete, he ran in eight 1500m races on the track and 9 cross country races. It seems that he actually came from a general endurance background and then worked on his speed.

There's a bloke called Jake Wightman who didn't struggle too badly in the World Championships at 1500m and he was nowhere near this.