Also part of the reason the school isn't in a conference in their state. No conference wants them because they are alongside twice the size of the 2nd biggest school in Indiana.
Also part of the reason the school isn't in a conference in their state. No conference wants them because they are alongside twice the size of the 2nd biggest school in Indiana.
You must be from Ben Davis....
A simple Google exercise shows that Carmel was in the Metropolitan Interscholastic Conference from '96-'21 when it was booted because it got caught flirting with another conference, along with Center Grove. Carmel has also been in many conferences over the years.
This isn't as complicated as some of you are making it out to be.
Lex and Leo Young can't be number 1 because they did horribly at their only national meet, NXN.
Aaron Sahlman can't be number 1 because he only won one meet the entire season.
Hunter Jones can't be number 1 because he ran both national meets and did poorly at both of them.
So that leaves Kole Mathison, who did very well at both national meets, finishing 1st and 4th. Kole Mathison is the logical number 1.
once again you’re literally just punishing aaron for having two borderline top 10 all time hs runners on his team. kole mathison doesn’t win a race all year if one of his teammates ran 13:43 as a junior
I'm not from Ben Davis and actually the 2nd biggest school is Warren Central. The conference Carmel wanted to join voted against them joining for that reason.
This isn't as complicated as some of you are making it out to be.
Lex and Leo Young can't be number 1 because they did horribly at their only national meet, NXN.
Aaron Sahlman can't be number 1 because he only won one meet the entire season.
Hunter Jones can't be number 1 because he ran both national meets and did poorly at both of them.
So that leaves Kole Mathison, who did very well at both national meets, finishing 1st and 4th. Kole Mathison is the logical number 1.
once again you’re literally just punishing aaron for having two borderline top 10 all time hs runners on his team. kole mathison doesn’t win a race all year if one of his teammates ran 13:43 as a junior
Rankings are based on what actually happened, not on what coulda woulda shoulda happened.
Mathison lost to 3 guys at NXN and has head to head wins against none of them. Salhman outside of woodbridge, where its common knowledge he wasnt 100%, has only lost to his teamates. Outside of woodbridge, beating L&L had exactly 0 impact on team points except for at NXN. The only time beating L&L would have lowered NP's team points, he did so.
If milesplit was sincere about the "entire season" justification they proffered on twitter they would have to rank L&L ahead of Sahlman, L&L went 5-1 against Sahlman. L&L were both ranked ahead of many people that beat them at NXN, so its not clear that this logic shouldn't rank them ahead of Sahlman.
It is also not clear that the regular season for Mathison was better than other people he lost to at NXN. Daniel Simmons (AF)- lost two races all year; NXN (2nd to Sahlman), Timpangos (3rd- lost to the 14th and 41st place guys at NXN), had quality wins at Utah State and NXRSW . Tyrone Gorze only lost at NXN to Simmons and Sahlman; Gorze had Quality wins at Woodbridge (beating a less than 100% Sahlman), Oregon State, and NXRNW.
Cole Mathison was the last individual qualifier at NXR-MW and placed second at Champs-MW (lost to Hunter Jones), and placed 4th at NXN. Cole had Quality wins at NikeTown, Indiana State and Champs nationals. Obviously Milesplit can responded to Cole's regional losses that Cole "beat them when it matters." If we accept that premise, Sahlman's losses to L&L don't matter, because he beat them at NXN, Sahlman avenged all his Woodbridge losses at Clovis and/or NXN. Simmons' loss at Timpangos doesn't matter because he beat the guys he lost to at NXN.
Sahlman, Simmons, and Gorze have a head-to-head win over Mathison. Mathison does not have any head to head wins over these 3. Sahlman has beat everyone he has lost to this season at least once, and won NXN. Mathison ran champs and NXR and didn't win either regional meet. Simmons and Gorze won the only regional meet they could run in, as running Champs West would have left their teamates high and dry.
The only possible way to get Mathison as US #1 is to weight Champs Nationals more than NXN. Mathison lost to more people in the this year than Simmons and Gorze combined. Gorze has a win with an asterisk over NXN champ Sahlman. Keep in mind that milesplit themselves believed that Simmons and Gorze had better seasons prior to the national Championships and ranked both of them ahead of Mathison. Sahlman was one spot behind Mathison going into NXN, one would think that two people ranked that closely would flip spots when two people ranked next to each other race, and one of them was the clear winner.
Sure MileSplit can point to "well, we selected the NXN winners for other catagories", but this does not counter my main assertion that Mathison is only #1 because there is a bias against NXN. The only viable team on the guys side that opted against NXN was Jesuit (La) and MS #2 pre meet, they lost to NXRSW #11 at Runninglane, so obviously even with a heavy weight against NXN, NP was number one. The same rationale applies to girl's teams and individuals. The fact someone from NXN won does not mean milesplit wasn't biased against NXN but rather that Irene Riggs and Saratoga Springs were so much better than the alternative, that they overcame the bias that is clear in a closer call like the boys individual rankings.
TDLR: Milesplit's "the whole season" justification is pretextual because Mathison lost to guys at NXN that had better seasons than him and, Mathison's #1 ranking can only be justified by weighting Champs Nationals more than NXN.
bumping bc I'm an idiot and wrote out a long reply and sent it before people would be on this site.
Name all the boys that finished in the top 5 at both NXN and Champs. Hmm, maybe that's a good way to get ranked really high.
As layed out over and over in this thread, it is impossible for a wide swath of the country to run both meets. Most importantly it was IMPOSSIBLE for the 3 boys that beat Mathison at NXN to run at Champs because the west region is the same day as NXN. This is possibly the worst logic for Mathison being #1, because the criteria favors the Champs Midwest region which does not conflict with NXRSW (for some reason that defies common sense, colorado runs the parkkside regional for champs) or NXRMW.
Name all the boys that finished in the top 5 at both NXN and Champs. Hmm, maybe that's a good way to get ranked really high.
As layed out over and over in this thread, it is impossible for a wide swath of the country to run both meets. Most importantly it was IMPOSSIBLE for the 3 boys that beat Mathison at NXN to run at Champs because the west region is the same day as NXN. This is possibly the worst logic for Mathison being #1, because the criteria favors the Champs Midwest region which does not conflict with NXRSW (for some reason that defies common sense, colorado runs the parkkside regional for champs) or NXRMW.
You still are not understanding the fact that rankings are based on what ACTUALLY happened, not on what woulda shoulda coulda happened.
It's not Milesplit's fault that runners in some regions can only run in one national championship race.
As layed out over and over in this thread, it is impossible for a wide swath of the country to run both meets. Most importantly it was IMPOSSIBLE for the 3 boys that beat Mathison at NXN to run at Champs because the west region is the same day as NXN. This is possibly the worst logic for Mathison being #1, because the criteria favors the Champs Midwest region which does not conflict with NXRSW (for some reason that defies common sense, colorado runs the parkkside regional for champs) or NXRMW.
You still are not understanding the fact that rankings are based on what ACTUALLY happened, not on what woulda shoulda coulda happened.
It's not Milesplit's fault that runners in some regions can only run in one national championship race.
What ACTUALLY HAPPENED: in his only head to head matchup with Sahlman, Simmons and Gorze. Mathison lost. He's not #1.
bumping bc I'm an idiot and wrote out a long reply and sent it before people would be on this site.
Name all the boys that finished in the top 5 at both NXN and Champs. Hmm, maybe that's a good way to get ranked really high.
At best, KM could be #4. He ‘literally’ got 4th (:11 behind winner Sahlmann), which was just :02 ahead of 10th at NXN.
How can you possibly put KM ahead of Sahlmann, Simmons, Gorze? KM’s high school best time (on non-RL course) was 14:47….. where he got beat by :25 by Hunter Jones (and 3 other guys)!
I’m not a KM hater- he performed to his max at the national meets. That alone is a tough thing to pull off. But to say he’s the best in the nation is silly. I’m sure he realizes he’s somewhere between 5-10 on most days.
What ACTUALLY HAPPENED: in his only head to head matchup with Sahlman, Simmons and Gorze. Mathison lost. He's not #1.
What actually happened is that Simmons and Gorze didn't win either national championship race.
Champs was CLEARLY INFERIOR on the guys side. Should we Consider Steven West for US #1 because he won RunningLane? He only lost one race all year and won a national championship.
Most recent race obviously holds the most weight. Otherwise Youngs or Jones may have been number one. This is always the standard. Let's use a race from 1 month ago or 3 months ago.
This isn't as complicated as some of you are making it out to be.
Lex and Leo Young can't be number 1 because they did horribly at their only national meet, NXN.
Aaron Sahlman can't be number 1 because he only won one meet the entire season.
Aaron Sahlman can be number 1, even if he only one meet the entire season, that's how championships works, normally.
The only point of debate is NXN is rigged for California, so they didn't have to run a regional, whereas Kole had to run NXR Midwest and Champs Midwest, and Kole went on to win Champs Nationals.
Special allowances need to stop being made for Cali so they are forced to get on season schedule like the rest of the nation, and maybe find a way to punish them for running varsity races less than 5k as well, tired of bragging about their 3 mile times.
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