Why are no top men succeeding on 25mpw and some cross training? Running fans will believe anything.
Couldnt agree more - there is a made up narative, not supported by any facts and everyone falls in line as if this is a normal path to sucess. Its not hard to look up the actual histories.
The Coffee Club podcast that previewed the NCAA xc meet a week or so ago also alluded to the high mileage college guys are putting in now. McDonald/Beamish/Hoare acknowledged that the top runners from the power schools like NAU and Stanford are essentially training as hard as professionals. Morgan even volunteered that, give the shape he's in right now, he probably would have been in that chase pack behind Hicks-Young-Bosley if he could have jumped into the race.
This is so true, and these days most of the top xc guys are putting in serious miles and are also in insane shape. Hicks/Young/Bosley are all capable of sub 27:30 on that day. Teams as a whole are all doing high mileage. Bosley was running just as much if not more than Maier. The Harvard and Stanford guys were doing ~100 a week consistently. Same goes for BYU, Wake Forest and OK state.
A couple people have said that Bosley is running just as much if not more than Maier. Why do people go on these boards and flat out lie? Bosley is on Strava. His mileage was in the 90s.
Do you think you can restrain yourself from making stuff up even though you are triggered?
The facts are you simply don’t know what Cook and Valby are doing, both in total hours of training, and the intensities of those hours.
Any reasonable person can see that so far, Cook’s freshman year is turning out much better that Tuohy’s freshman year, so it is a great stretch to start throwing out definite platitudes. We very well could see both Cook and Valby overtake Tuohy’s progression. We currently do not know one way or another.
Tuohy was coming off of knee surgery (from an injury sustained in high school) her true freshman race at NCAA XC Chsmpionships when she finished 24th. And the 2021 XC season where she finished 15th, she was running all season with a minor nagging injury and fell down in that race. Tuohy didn’t really display anything close to her top form until the spring of 2022. And she’s only 20 years old now. Cook will turn 20 in January. Tuohy and Cook are only a year apart in age. Let’s see if Cook is 5k outdoor champion or XC champion in 6 and 12 months from now, and then you can compare her to Tuohy.
The male fields are also deeper making it less likely that someone with triathlon-style training would succeed.
But as has been pointed out above, at the highest level and especially in shorter distances than half marathon, efficiency, mental toughness at race tempo and kick are very important and probably the decisive factors not aerobic conditioning that can be done quite well with alternative training. That seems another reason why the faster men can not thrive on a lot of alternative training, because the factors specific to running are more important. Otherwise there would have long since been male world class runners doing huge training loads on bikes or so (up to the amounts of triathletes) and beat the "mere runners". But there aren't.
What does that mean ' the men's field is deeper' ? The women's fields are just as competitive.
Also, you absolutely have to have a kick to win women's races at the highest level, so that makes no sense.
There is nothing physiological to say heavy x training should work for women but not men, if it indeed works.
And no one knows whether they would continue to progress as they race and run more in college given how their body operate to the tear and wear of running.
Cook's injury happened early in Highschool, Tuohy's injury happened at the end of her Highschool career which affected her transition to college. Valby's injury happened in her first years in college.
The point is, Valby and Cook rarely runs and rarely races compared to Tuohy because of their fragility but it is called as an "upside".
In the men's side, we wouldn't have this conversation.
Why do you say Cook and Valby rarely race? Cook has been racing regularly since entering college, and Valby has been racing regularly since coming back from a broken foot? Does that mean now they should ‘over-race’ in the NCAA mill?
Regarding the men’s side, we can only wonder what may have been for GF when he got injured in college, and then had been encouraged to try out the Cook/Valby training approach in order to get back on track. But back in his era, high mileage was a panacea.
GF … In high school was running ~ 50/w and churning out mile after mile on a stationary bicycle. His math teacher/coach knew he was fragile before he even left hs.
I don't believe the low mileage, Valby run pretty high mileage and cross trains a ton. Valby and Solinsky have different answers, how come you and your coach have different answers?
Isn’t that pretty obvious? Solinsky has no idea what’s going on.
He has one good athlete who reports doing things different than what he reports she’s doing. Trust her not him. She is figuring herself out and he doesn’t understand what is making her successful. If he had learned anything from Valby you’d see more success around her.
Where do you see the benefit of his coaching on that program at all? Valby’s race tactics? Her tangent ability? The team success? Other athletes staying injury free? Other athletes improving regularly?
Would Valby be any less Valby with a different coach? Unlikely. She is great and making her coach look better because of her abilities. Not the other way around.
Solinsky is lost and out of his league. Great American runner. Mediocre at best coach.
Valby and Cook are the same type of runners that rely on aerobic endurance to run fast. Tuohy seems to rely more on strength.
Who wins a 5000m race? A runner with more strength resulting to faster turnover? or A runner with more endurance being able to hang a fast pace?
Based on the past championships, the runner with more strength resulting to faster turnover wins a 5000m race.
Not true. Aerobic fitness is crucial to distance running - or we would see decathletes, with their superior strength and speed, succeeding in longer events.
Solinsky has no money because he is part of the best track team in the NCAA yet he gets an athlete to the level of going undefeated through major meets and conference and regional championships.
You are correct. Tuohy has more speed and actual strength than Valby. Valby is a tempo runner who will do best at an evenly paced fast race over longer distance. She is like Gidey. I think Tuohy will be best at 1500/5000 while Valby will be better at 5000/10,000.
Cook looks like she is very thin due to a concerted effort while Valby looks like she has the physique of a pro. I think Valby has more upside than Cook or Tuohy. Those are just my opinions. I like all of them so don't get upset over a discussion.
The focus should be on longevity, not short term performance. I've always trained as though my coach was my 80-year-old self after hearing that quote from someone on a podcast.
I don't want to put in all the miles during the first half of my life so I can't in the second half of my life.
Men are not as prone to injuries, especially not bone-related injuries like stress fractures. The male fields are also deeper making it less likely that someone with triathlon-style training would succeed. As far as I know an older very good athlete who became better by incorporating a lot of alternative training, because less injuries, is Eilish McColgan.
But as has been pointed out above, at the highest level and especially in shorter distances than half marathon, efficiency, mental toughness at race tempo and kick are very important and probably the decisive factors not aerobic conditioning that can be done quite well with alternative training. That seems another reason why the faster men can not thrive on a lot of alternative training, because the factors specific to running are more important. Otherwise there would have long since been male world class runners doing huge training loads on bikes or so (up to the amounts of triathletes) and beat the "mere runners". But there aren't.
So how many top African women are succeeding on 25mpw and some cross training? I would pick that none are. Indeed, where is the data also that shows women distance-runners are more injury-prone than men?
If aerobic training could be accomplished just as well with alternatives to running then most top coaches and athletes in the last half century have been barking up the wrong tree. Valby's formula would have long ago been the norm. It isn't. All I read here are rationalizations of the implausible.
Solinsky has no money because he is part of the best track team in the NCAA yet he gets an athlete to the level of going undefeated through major meets and conference and regional championships.
If you’re one of the top American distance runners of all-time, at one of the top NCAA track and field programs of all-time, in one of the best locations in the SEC(Gainesville). You telling me you need money to get top talent there? You need a lil to give out partials but man you got enough to get good kids to walk on there. If you can’t sell what I mentioned above you’re at the wrong place.
You are correct. Tuohy has more speed and actual strength than Valby. Valby is a tempo runner who will do best at an evenly paced fast race over longer distance. She is like Gidey. I think Tuohy will be best at 1500/5000 while Valby will be better at 5000/10,000.
A kick or finishing speed are also crucial to the longer distances - as Viren, Farah and Bekele have shown. The "tempo" runner can only succeed if they have lost the field - which rarely happens at the top.
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