Please spell out exactly what are those physiological symptoms are and provide the evidence documenting them.
You are not very bright if you cannot grasp that we are IGNORANT of much that exists. Try to keep up. Are you so stupid that you do not believe that physiological processes govern everything, including gender identity issues?
On this thread in a very short space of time, you on your high horse have wokescolded me and ordered me around, cast aspersions on my character, told me I am full of hate, said I'm a misandrist and psychologically twisted.
You've also said I ooze, as though I am a slug or pustule or leaky oil pipe.
Now you are saying I am "not very bright" - in fact I am "so stupid."
Why can't you just answer the straightforward questions I posed? Why the puerile impulse misogynistic need to denigrate me?
what a classic cringe rojo take. love the association with the conservative woman for cover.
to say gender identity is "belief" is to deny nearly everything we know about gender identity. i thought we got past that in the 80s.
there are, i think, reasonable and not jaw dropping arguments as to why gender identity has no place in sport... but this isnt one of them.
Please share what you mean when you speak of "everything we know about gender identity" which "we got past in the 80s" which shows it's not a belief.
As far as I can figure out, a gender identity is belief about the self that some people hold based on their fixation on sexist sex stereotypes and their conviction that sexist sex stereotypes are of paramount importance and they are the primary criteria which define human beings. Similar to how some people believe they have souls based on their faith in a religion and their conviction that the tenets of their religion are of paramount importance and all humans should be judged and categorized according to them.
Personally, I don't remember much talk about gender identity in the 1980s. As I recall, the only people who were thought to have a gender identity back then were those who wished they were the opposite sex. In the 1980s, gender identity was mainly discussed by that very small group of people and the sexologists and other clinicians who treated and studied them.
But maybe I missed the ball here. Again, please share "everything we know about gender identity" that "we got past in the 80s."
For nearly 40 years, the NYC Marathon has been known for being a trailblazer that paid its male and female athletes the same prize money. Sadly, that changed on Sunday. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what sex dominated the new non-binary gender division at Sunday's 2022 New York City Marathon.
I don’t understand the big deal about this at all. The Men and Women category prizes were not reduced for the non-binary category.
This is what you choose to get worked up about?
Why do I care?
1) Because it concerns me a great deal that truth in this country is no longer an important thing. When Donald Trump just makes things up, people on the left recognize the danger in that. When they do it in these type of debates (a man can give birth), for some reason, they are totally oblivious to it. There needs to be a respect for objective scientific facts for society to function. One's gender is irrelevant for sport and the fact that people who run the NYRR don't recognize that is disturbing. Let me know when the NFL starts a non-binary league.
2) Because I want people coming together. Instead, we are creating artificial barriers between people. It greatly disturbs me. "What gender are you?" None of your damn business. If the NYRR asked me what religion I was, I'd answer the same way. Why are we needlessly categorizing people by irrelevant categories. For mosst things in life, all you need to know is my name is Robert Johnson. Sometimes you may need to know my age and very rarely my sex. Gender is something you don't need to know;.
3) I do think it is discriminatory and hurting dark/brown African runners, particularly female. The poster here says the men's and women's categories were not reduced. I don't buy that argument. There is only so much money to split up. The reality is the World Marathon Majors winners from Africa - Eliud Kipchoge and Gotytom Gebreslase - were supposed to win $250,000 for winning the Series title but were told a few weeks ago to go pound said, they'd only be paid $50k.
So New York doesn't have money for the black WMM majors but suddenly finds $15,000 for this? And who is winning all of this non-binary prize money? So far it's been 100% taken by some of the most privileged people in our society - white males with degrees from super prestigious universities. It's really disgusting. The "let's don't send money to the black and brown people of Africa, let's send it to a bunch of privileged white people masquerading as modern day Rosa Parkses" needs to stop.
As for the gender identity being like a religion. I think the metaphor is very good.
Some dont like it and are saying gender isn't really a belief as you don't choose your gender just like you don't choose your sexual orientation. That very well may be true, but for both sexuality and gender the reality is we don't run tests on people that say, "Your gender is man, your gender is woman. Your gender is non-binary. Your gay, your staright, your bi, your asexual." Like religion or sexual orientation, we accept whatever you tell us your gender is. And if you change your declared gender or sexual orientation, we accept it.
Most importantly, we don't have sports categories based on sexual orientation. If we are going to have a non-binary category, I say let's go all out in 2023. We might as well have prize money in 2023 for gays, straights, whites, blacks, etc - a bunch of things that have nothing to do with performance.
Now the NYRR does already does this to a some extent - as they have special prize money for Americans.
3) I do think it is discriminatory and hurting dark/brown African runners, particularly female. The poster here says the men's and women's categories were not reduced. I don't buy that argument. There is only so much money to split up. The reality is the World Marathon Majors winners from Africa - Eliud Kipchoge and Gotytom Gebreslas - were supposed to win $250,000 for winning the Series title but were told a few weeks ago to go pound said, they'd only be paid $50k.
So New York doesn't have money for the black WMM majors but suddenly finds $15,000 for this? And who is winning all of this non-binary prize money? So far it's been 100% taken by some of the most privileged people in our society - white males with degrees from super prestigious universities. It's really disgusting. The "let's don't send money to the black and brown people of Africa, let's send it to a bunch of privileged white people masquerading as modern day Rosa Parkses" needs to stop.
Impressive all-in-one fair, brown, and black white nighting.
It’s a lame dishonest tack to play the sexism card by claiming that men got paid more than women by counting the non-binary category as men.
Take your pick: the non-binary run with women or they run by themselves.
I think in order to appease people, NY marathon is encouraging 'non binary' (whatever that means) to compete in a different division by paying 'average' ability runners the same prize money.
To answer your question, wouldn't the simplest solution be , run with the sex you were born as (i.e, with same physical advantages) or run in the male division. Or is that too simple for you.
This is not really a complicated problem, people are free to identify as they wish. Events are just making it complicated in order not to cop the flak from the woke minority.
And I am speaking as a left wing person. who has undergone real discrimination, so keep your 'faux offence' to yourselves.
It’s a lame dishonest tack to play the sexism card by claiming that men got paid more than women by counting the non-binary category as men.
Take your pick: the non-binary run with women or they run by themselves.
I think in order to appease people, NY marathon is encouraging 'non binary' (whatever that means) to compete in a different division by paying 'average' ability runners the same prize money.
To answer your question, wouldn't the simplest solution be , run with the sex you were born as (i.e, with same physical advantages) or run in the male division. Or is that too simple for you.
This is not really a complicated problem, people are free to identify as they wish. Events are just making it complicated in order not to cop the flak from the woke minority.
And I am speaking as a left wing person. who has undergone real discrimination, so keep your 'faux offence' to yourselves.
I didn’t ask you any question and am utterly uninterested in your bubbablather.
what a classic cringe rojo take. love the association with the conservative woman for cover.
to say gender identity is "belief" is to deny nearly everything we know about gender identity. i thought we got past that in the 80s.
there are, i think, reasonable and not jaw dropping arguments as to why gender identity has no place in sport... but this isnt one of them.
Please share what you mean when you speak of "everything we know about gender identity" which "we got past in the 80s" which shows it's not a belief.
As far as I can figure out, a gender identity is belief about the self that some people hold based on their fixation on sexist sex stereotypes and their conviction that sexist sex stereotypes are of paramount importance and they are the primary criteria which define human beings. Similar to how some people believe they have souls based on their faith in a religion and their conviction that the tenets of their religion are of paramount importance and all humans should be judged and categorized according to them.
Personally, I don't remember much talk about gender identity in the 1980s. As I recall, the only people who were thought to have a gender identity back then were those who wished they were the opposite sex. In the 1980s, gender identity was mainly discussed by that very small group of people and the sexologists and other clinicians who treated and studied them.
But maybe I missed the ball here. Again, please share "everything we know about gender identity" that "we got past in the 80s."
You come to this board a lot and assert stuff far outside of your apparent expertise - I suspect the academic establishment or literate circles are too intimidating for you and it's easier to appear smart/dominating on this board full of troll-ish bros who don't care to learn more about the subject matter at hand.
Your dismissal of a few decades of gender theory... and actual evidence from athletic competition doesn't fly past the few of us who have read a little.
I'll let you have your fun, but just know that you are preaching to the choir here, not enlightening any minds, furthering any causes, or really doing anything at all!
3) I do think it is discriminatory and hurting dark/brown African runners, particularly female. The poster here says the men's and women's categories were not reduced. I don't buy that argument. There is only so much money to split up. The reality is the World Marathon Majors winners from Africa - Eliud Kipchoge and Gotytom Gebreslas - were supposed to win $250,000 for winning the Series title but were told a few weeks ago to go pound said, they'd only be paid $50k.
So New York doesn't have money for the black WMM majors but suddenly finds $15,000 for this? And who is winning all of this non-binary prize money? So far it's been 100% taken by some of the most privileged people in our society - white males with degrees from super prestigious universities. It's really disgusting. The "let's don't send money to the black and brown people of Africa, let's send it to a bunch of privileged white people masquerading as modern day Rosa Parkses" needs to stop.
Impressive all-in-one fair, brown, and black white nighting.
What on earth do you mean by "white nighting"? The phenomena known as airglow or bright nights? Or the midnight sun that occurs in the Arctic and Antarctic circles?
BTW, thanks for calling me "an oozing old pustule on a not very bright slug trapped inside a leaky oil pipe, so more like an oozing ooze inside of an oozer" in your earlier post. Silly juvenile slurs like that just go to show that guys like you can't put forward any coherent, convincing arguments for your positions. Instead you just come out with playground taunts such as "your mom wears army boots," "Nazi!" and "nyah, nyah, nyah."
I don’t understand the big deal about this at all. The Men and Women category prizes were not reduced for the non-binary category.
This is what you choose to get worked up about?
Why do I care?
1) Because it concerns me a great deal that truth in this country is no longer an important thing. ....There needs to be a respect for objective scientific facts for society to function. One's gender is irrelevant for sport and the fact that people who run the NYRR don't recognize that is disturbing. Let me know when the NFL starts a non-binary league.
HAHHAAHA...hilarious. You seriously sound like you've come unhinged.
So now you're admitting that it really wasn't about saving women's sports after all. ItI guess that's progress.....admitting that you really do just have an axe to grind with non-binary people and you see them as a threat to society and that it has nothing at all to do with 'fairness in sport.'
At least you seem to be dropping that 'save women's sports' charade finally.
3) I do think it is discriminatory and hurting dark/brown African runners, particularly female. The poster here says the men's and women's categories were not reduced. I don't buy that argument. There is only so much money to split up. The reality is the World Marathon Majors winners from Africa - Eliud Kipchoge and Gotytom Gebreslas - were supposed to win $250,000 for winning the Series title but were told a few weeks ago to go pound said, they'd only be paid $50k.
So New York doesn't have money for the black WMM majors but suddenly finds $15,000 for this? And who is winning all of this non-binary prize money? So far it's been 100% taken by some of the most privileged people in our society - white males with degrees from super prestigious universities. It's really disgusting. The "let's don't send money to the black and brown people of Africa, let's send it to a bunch of privileged white people masquerading as modern day Rosa Parkses" needs to stop.
Impressive all-in-one fair, brown, and black white nighting.
Please share what you mean when you speak of "everything we know about gender identity" which "we got past in the 80s" which shows it's not a belief.
As far as I can figure out, a gender identity is belief about the self that some people hold based on their fixation on sexist sex stereotypes and their conviction that sexist sex stereotypes are of paramount importance and they are the primary criteria which define human beings. Similar to how some people believe they have souls based on their faith in a religion and their conviction that the tenets of their religion are of paramount importance and all humans should be judged and categorized according to them.
Personally, I don't remember much talk about gender identity in the 1980s. As I recall, the only people who were thought to have a gender identity back then were those who wished they were the opposite sex. In the 1980s, gender identity was mainly discussed by that very small group of people and the sexologists and other clinicians who treated and studied them.
But maybe I missed the ball here. Again, please share "everything we know about gender identity" that "we got past in the 80s."
You come to this board a lot and assert stuff far outside of your apparent expertise - I suspect the academic establishment or literate circles are too intimidating for you and it's easier to appear smart/dominating on this board full of troll-ish bros who don't care to learn more about the subject matter at hand.
Your dismissal of a few decades of gender theory... and actual evidence from athletic competition doesn't fly past the few of us who have read a little.
I'll let you have your fun, but just know that you are preaching to the choir here, not enlightening any minds, furthering any causes, or really doing anything at all!
Please enlighten me and others about how and why "a few decades of gender theory" undermine and disprove millions/billions of years of evolution during which biological sex has not just been "a thing," but it's been the main thing.
Pray tell, what is the "actual evidence from athletic competition" that supports basing sports competition solely on participants' individual, idiosyncratic, inner self-concepts rather than on the objective, measurable sex and age of their bodies?
You sneer that "your dismissal of a few decades of gender theory... and actual evidence from athletic competition doesn't fly past the few of us who have read a little."
So tell me oh wise and learned one, what are the titles I should read in order to become as enlightened as you?
You come to this board a lot and assert stuff far outside of your apparent expertise - I suspect the academic establishment or literate circles are too intimidating for you and it's easier to appear smart/dominating on this board full of troll-ish bros who don't care to learn more about the subject matter at hand.
Your dismissal of a few decades of gender theory... and actual evidence from athletic competition doesn't fly past the few of us who have read a little.
I'll let you have your fun, but just know that you are preaching to the choir here, not enlightening any minds, furthering any causes, or really doing anything at all!
Please enlighten me and others about how and why "a few decades of gender theory" undermine and disprove millions/billions of years of evolution during which biological sex has not just been "a thing," but it's been the main thing.
Pray tell, what is the "actual evidence from athletic competition" that supports basing sports competition solely on participants' individual, idiosyncratic, inner self-concepts rather than on the objective, measurable sex and age of their bodies?
You sneer that "your dismissal of a few decades of gender theory... and actual evidence from athletic competition doesn't fly past the few of us who have read a little."
So tell me oh wise and learned one, what are the titles I should read in order to become as enlightened as you?
As I said. LetsRun isn't the domain for this. I just wanted to chime in and not-so-gently let you know that those of us with our heads not firmly in the sand are not fooled. Carry on.
Please enlighten me and others about how and why "a few decades of gender theory" undermine and disprove millions/billions of years of evolution during which biological sex has not just been "a thing," but it's been the main thing.
Pray tell, what is the "actual evidence from athletic competition" that supports basing sports competition solely on participants' individual, idiosyncratic, inner self-concepts rather than on the objective, measurable sex and age of their bodies?
You sneer that "your dismissal of a few decades of gender theory... and actual evidence from athletic competition doesn't fly past the few of us who have read a little."
So tell me oh wise and learned one, what are the titles I should read in order to become as enlightened as you?
As I said. LetsRun isn't the domain for this. I just wanted to chime in and not-so-gently let you know that those of us with our heads not firmly in the sand are not fooled. Carry on.
So LetsRun is only for males who are misogynists, male supremacists and adherents of sexist, regressive, cockamamie "gender theory"?
LetsrRun "isn't the domain" for women who disagree with your condescending sexist bullshxt?
Why don't you just answer the questions I posed? I don't see the point of you wagging your wokescolding, mansplaining finger at me and casting aspersions on my education, intelligence, expertise and character when instead you could simply name the titles of all the texts you think I and other ignoramuses need to read in order to reach or at least understand the rarefied, erudite, enlightened POV of the "few of us who have read a little" like you.
I don’t understand the big deal about this at all. The Men and Women category prizes were not reduced for the non-binary category.
This is what you choose to get worked up about?
Why do I care?
1) Because it concerns me a great deal that truth in this country is no longer an important thing. When Donald Trump just makes things up, people on the left recognize the danger in that. When they do it in these type of debates (a man can give birth), for some reason, they are totally oblivious to it. There needs to be a respect for objective scientific facts for society to function. One's gender is irrelevant for sport and the fact that people who run the NYRR don't recognize that is disturbing. Let me know when the NFL starts a non-binary league.
2) Because I want people coming together. Instead, we are creating artificial barriers between people. It greatly disturbs me. "What gender are you?" None of your damn business. If the NYRR asked me what religion I was, I'd answer the same way. Why are we needlessly categorizing people by irrelevant categories. For mosst things in life, all you need to know is my name is Robert Johnson. Sometimes you may need to know my age and very rarely my sex. Gender is something you don't need to know;.
3) I do think it is discriminatory and hurting dark/brown African runners, particularly female. The poster here says the men's and women's categories were not reduced. I don't buy that argument. There is only so much money to split up. The reality is the World Marathon Majors winners from Africa - Eliud Kipchoge and Gotytom Gebreslase - were supposed to win $250,000 for winning the Series title but were told a few weeks ago to go pound said, they'd only be paid $50k.
So New York doesn't have money for the black WMM majors but suddenly finds $15,000 for this? And who is winning all of this non-binary prize money? So far it's been 100% taken by some of the most privileged people in our society - white males with degrees from super prestigious universities. It's really disgusting. The "let's don't send money to the black and brown people of Africa, let's send it to a bunch of privileged white people masquerading as modern day Rosa Parkses" needs to stop.
I think "RunRagged" and Rojo have made some of the most logical points on this thread.
And for the record, I consider myself a solid left-wing Democrat. I vote all blue on basically all issues. I consider myself Liberal. But I agree with Rojo and RunRagged on this thread and article. Some others posting are clearly letting emotion and irrational thought processes somehow justify and rationalize concepts that simply go against the fundamentals of basic life science and human evolution.
To the poster who said that I was wrong in saying gender identification was a "feeling" I will stand by that fact. But remember attraction is also not a choice. The mind-body connection is obviously very strong and there is a matter of biological evolution at play often mixed with societal pressures and norms aka the old "nature vs nurture" debate. On the science side I think it's pretty obvious that most individuals who identify as being gay are born gay. For others on the LGBTQIA+ spectrum I realize the complexities of what is hormone based and anatomically based (especially in regards to relative ratios and sizes of brain regions like the corpus callous, amygdala, and hippocampus).
But biological sex is quite clearly defined in the most basic scientific terms. Using the "logic" of non-binary category supporters though we should also have an Autism spectrum category with $5000 in prize money too then.
Finally to address Rojo's point: What is going to stop some 2:15 guy from Africa from entering this non-binary category next year? Gender identification bias and feelings of not belonging? If you're living in poverty $5000 is a very good pay day!
I think in order to appease people, NY marathon is encouraging 'non binary' (whatever that means) to compete in a different division by paying 'average' ability runners the same prize money.
To answer your question, wouldn't the simplest solution be , run with the sex you were born as (i.e, with same physical advantages) or run in the male division. Or is that too simple for you.
This is not really a complicated problem, people are free to identify as they wish. Events are just making it complicated in order not to cop the flak from the woke minority.
And I am speaking as a left wing person. who has undergone real discrimination, so keep your 'faux offence' to yourselves.
I didn’t ask you any question and am utterly uninterested in your bubbablather.
I'm answering a question posed on a thread, thanks. It seems you only want certain answers