Are USATF Masters Champs really the best for their age?

No way. The best runners have full time jobs, families and volunteer activities and don’t worry too much about traveling to these titles around the country. Have fewer of these and consolidate like the US track and field championships and maybe the completion will improve. Some great runners are running in these but by no means is it the best field.

Will USATF give up control to make Carlsbad a championship?

If the race says loaded field it likely means it isn’t or has a slightly better field than during COVID.

Haven't seen them yet...

How about the USATF track and field championships (indoor and outdoor)? Attract the best in the nation generally or not as much as the LDR road races?

If you are talking about the USATF Masters XC Championship, Chris Gomez won for the men (16:35ish) and Ann Marie Kirkpatrick (19:16ish) for the women.

I remember doing 55-59 indoor USATF 3000m and race had a two-time world indoor gold medallist; the runner who had the fastest time in the US that year; the runner who had the fastest time in the US the previous year; the previous year's US 1500m champion; and a World Senior Games record-holder (and me).

There might have been some faster runners out there, but I'd say that is a representative field.

I was third, and was close to the top 20 times in the world that year (and that was despite it being a pretty tactical race for the first half).

I've run probably 3/4 of the Carlsbad 5ks since its inception about 35 years ago. It's probably been about 20 years, but it was the USATF road 5k championship once near the end of Steve Scott's involvement with the race organizaton. The race organizers simply have to bid for it to be designated a USATF Championship and show that they have the organizational structure to run a championship race. The race has been owned by Meb and a couple of local people since just before the Covid shutdown. The prior ownership entity had no interest in bidding for a USATF championship. The current owners might.

There is a tentative schedule posted somewhere that I have seen. Most races the same locations as last year including the half, which someone asked about. FMY, most of these races are not fast course, meaning very hilly and windy.

So you're basically just asking for the most competitive road races in the US right? 10k you got Crescent City Classic/Peachtree/Beach to Beacon/Cooper Bridge. Odd distance races like Manchester RR/Shamrock/Falmouth/Bay to Breakers/Bloomsday/Boilermaker are all competitive. TC + Cherry Blossom 10 milers. Houston Half + NYC Half.

It depends on where you live too. USATF-NE has a road racing circuit with very deep races (both open + masters). They also do cross + track stuff. Club cross is probably one of the most competitive age group races in the US. One of the few races that people flock to outside of major marathons.

Even with some above average talent, the guys that peg 85% or higher on the Age Grade are putting in very serious training. It takes a lot of time and energy, thus consuming a large part of their life. So it makes less sense that you think the guys you list, with all those other activities, are still able to compete at such a high level, too. And that includes whether or not, in either case, the are also using PEDs.

And delusion-ally, you might be referring to the guys that were fast at a young age, and thus would still be fast if they actually cared and put in the training in order to be fast when they are old. That may or may not be true, due to attrition of the body, and due to the fact that intrinsic motivation for the task is part of what makes one ‘fast’.

But if you still disagree, go ahead and list some examples of masters and grandmasters pegging out >85% Age Grade, that restrict themselves to only racing occasionally in the local 5k.

One example I can think of might be Fred Torneden (and his wife), for I’m not sure whether they do any of the races cited here, but they nonetheless, seem pretty fast. So I guess I do agree there are some fast >85% Age Graders that don’t participate in the events and races listed so far, but they still do compete is some local events. And I imagine, they still need to put in serious training.

Torneden and his wife were coaching when I checked over a year ago, (somewhat likely confirming the part about it taking up a large part of their life. )

Additionally, I dunno, but maybe once one gets up into the 70’s or 80’s age-group category, they might be able to peg >85% Age Grade on little training if they were able to stay in good health? Ask the older fellow that posted earlier in the thread about that.

I just cited the example of Torneden and his wife that will race on occasion, but usually in a local race.

So there are some fast athletes indeed that might be satisfied with seeing how they ‘peg out’ strictly in local races, without getting caught up in traveling a long way to a USATF event. But the rare bird would be athletes that fast which only perform Time Trials on the track, and never race at all.

If you are referring to me (age 73 next month) as the "older fellow", I never have won a USATF Championship, but I have made the podium multiple times and my best road and track times have hit 86% age graded. I worked full-time until I was 69, and my training was always somewhat constrained by work commitments. Since then I have had more time and energy to focus on my training. Since the beginning of this year I have averaged 45mpw of running. I also do some cross training on my bike, a little strength training, and some surfing and SUP boarding. I average right about 90 minutes/day 7 days a week for total exercise activities.

Thanks. I would be interested to see what the 80+ fellow (ggilder) does, too.

Buchanan girls with a 1-4 sweep.

boys team wins and has a bright future

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FLAT SAC Invitational 2022 - Varsity Large School Girls

MileSplits official Varsity Large School Girls formatted results for the 2022 FLAT SAC Invitational, hosted by Mira Loma (SJ) in Elverta CA.

Open link

NERunner03533, thanks! That's a great list of competitive races.

I was trying to see if there are any races as competitive as the USATF Championship races at the Masters level. It seems like USATF's are actually the most competitive.

One poster so far, dhaaga, found the Cherry Blossom 10 Mile to be as competitive, if not more, for M60-64.

USATF Masters 5K 2022 Championship
45 to 49 - 1. Jacques Sallberg 15:58, 2. Jason Ritter 16:03, 3. John Jackson 16:06
50 to 54 - 1. Christian Cushing 16:45, 2. Mark Andrews 16:54, 3. Brent Fields 17:28
55 to 59 - 1. David Matherne 17:23, 2. Michael Collins 17:26, 3. John McMahon 17:36
60 to 64 - Joseph Mora 18:02, 2. Tim Degrado 18:05, 3. Rick Lee 18:05
USATF Masters 10K 2022 Championship
45 to 49 - 1. Jason Holroyd 33:37, 2. Mike Cole 33:56, 3. Aaron Price 34:17
50 to 54 - 1. Mark Carroll 33:38, 2. Richard Falcone 33:39, 3. Gregory Putnam 34:09
55 to 59 - 1. Nat Larson 34:22, 2. Brian Crowley 35:03, 3. Scott Grandfield 36:21
60 to 64 - 1. Tim Degrado 35:59, 2. Rick Lee 36:41, 3. Paul McGovern 36:54
USATF Masters 10 Mile 2022 Championship
45 to 49 - 1. Gregory Mitchell 52:57, 2. Jason Troxler 53:49, 3. Jacques Sallberg 54:49
50 to 54 - 1. Jaime Heilpern 55:11, 2. Mark Callon 56:03, 3. Ivan Lieben 56:38
55 to 59 - 1. Nat Larson 57:11, 2. Thomas Tayeri 58:05, 3. Anthony McGrath 58:07
60 to 64 - 1. Tim Degrado 59:47, 2. Iain Mickle 59:57, 3. Paul Hughes 1:03:00
USATF Masters Half 2022 Championship
45 to 49 - 1. Jeff Tomaszewski 1:16:51, 2. Harley Johnson 1:17:18, 3. 1:17:51
50 to 54 - 1. Mark Callon 1:15:43, 2. Gregory Putnam 1:15:48, 3. Richard Falcone 1:16:57
55 to 59 - 1. Nat Larson 1:16:30, 2. John McMahon 1:19:58, 3. David Putney 1:19:59
60 to 64 - 1. Rick Lee 1:19:39, 2. Roger Sayre 1:21:42, 3. Lawrence Sak 1:24:15