Michael Phelps is history's best athlete. Not Jordan, Ali, etc..

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3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:10pm EDT

re: yup.....

yup..... wrote:
He's DOMINATED. Swimming allows multi-events, but still much better than anyone else.

You may be right. He was such a great swimmer that, even if he had not made it to the 2008 Olympics for some reason, he was already the greatest swimmer of all time even before that triumph.

You see the greatest athlete of all time? You could make that case. Most non-swimmers, which is almost everyone, cannot really fathom how difficult it is to do what he did, and how unprecedented it really was. Swimming is probably the most difficult sport there is, with the possible exception of combat sports where your opponent is trying to kill you. Swimming is a high conditioning and high skill sport, and those are very rare.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:12pm EDT

re: not even a runner

not even a runner wrote:
There is so little competition in swimming relative to many other sports, so nah.

That’s not true at all. Swimming has exploded in popularity over the last quarter century, and is more competitive than it has ever been. Hungary is now a swimming power, if you can believe it.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:12pm EDT

re: Mikeh33

Except where Spitz already did it, with fewer relays (7 gold's, 4 individual Wars), an arguably superior performance to Phelps

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:13pm EDT

re: the jericho mile.

the jericho mile. wrote:
he's not even the best swimmer though. The best swimmer is the most dominant and/or WR holder in the 100m freestyle
So the best swimmer is either David Popovici, Caleb Dressel, or Cesar Cielo. Depending on how you look at it. Cielo's is a super suit record but his performance solid.
Also Matt Biondi at one point had like 15 of the worlds top 20 100m free times, so he is also on the list.

Not so. You listed the best freestylers. The best swimmers in the world are those who do multiple events or the Individual medley, which is a race with all four strokes. Phelps is easily the greatest individual medley swimmer who ever lived.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:15pm EDT

re: swimmer

swimmer wrote:
To all the people calling swimming a niche sport, I'm pretty sure there were a lot more kids in my swimming summer leagues than there were in any local running programs. If there were any local running programs.

You’re right. In my area alone there are literally thousands of kids involved in summer competitive swim programs. It’s remarkable how popular the sport it, at least at the recreational level.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:17pm EDT

re: jamese1045

jamese1045 wrote:
yup..... wrote:
He's DOMINATED. Swimming allows multi-events, but still much better than anyone else.
Hasn’t Katie Ledecky surpassed him?

No. Katie Ledecky is the greatest freestyler in history, at least on the women’s side. Phelps was world class and world beating in multiple strokes.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:20pm EDT

re: Just Another Hobby Jogger

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
jamese1045 wrote:
Hasn’t Katie Ledecky surpassed him?
As objective measurement, I'd go with the medal count.
Phelps has 28 individual gold medals in Olympics or World Championships. Ledecky has 20.
2nd among men is Sun Yang (a doper) with 14. Hosszu has 12 for the 2nd place among women.

No Phelps has 28 Olympic medals. Add in World Championships and the number goes much higher.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:24pm EDT

re: Mikeh33

Mikeh33 wrote:
the jericho mile. wrote:
he's not even the best swimmer though. The best swimmer is the most dominant and/or WR holder in the 100m freestyle
So the best swimmer is either David Popovici, Caleb Dressel, or Cesar Cielo. Depending on how you look at it. Cielo's is a super suit record but his performance solid.
Also Matt Biondi at one point had like 15 of the worlds top 20 100m free times, so he is also on the list.
Not so. You listed the best freestylers. The best swimmers in the world are those who do multiple events or the Individual medley, which is a race with all four strokes. Phelps is easily the greatest individual medley swimmer who ever lived.

Phelps isn't even the best IM'er from his own country, that's Lochte.

Freestylers are the best swimmers in the pool, it isn't even an argument. The other strokes probably shouldn't exist.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:24pm EDT

re: The Jericho Mile..

The Jericho Mile.. wrote:
Except where Spitz already did it, with fewer relays (7 gold's, 4 individual Wars), an arguably superior performance to Phelps

No, Phelps had the same number of relays as Spitz (three), and five individual races to Spitz’s four.

Phelps had to swim semifinals, while Spitz didn’t.

The world of swimming was far more competitive by the 2000s than it was in 1972.

All in all, what Phelps did in 2008 was far superior to what Spitz did in 1972.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:26pm EDT

re: The Jericho Mile..

The Jericho Mile.. wrote:
Mikeh33 wrote:
Not so. You listed the best freestylers. The best swimmers in the world are those who do multiple events or the Individual medley, which is a race with all four strokes. Phelps is easily the greatest individual medley swimmer who ever lived.
Phelps isn't even the best IM'er from his own country, that's Lochte.
Freestylers are the best swimmers in the pool, it isn't even an argument. The other strokes probably shouldn't exist.

No, Lochte had the world record in the 200 individual medley, but Phelps won gold in the event in 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016. He is by far the greatest of all time.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:28pm EDT

re: The Jericho Mile..

The Jericho Mile.. wrote:
Freestylers are the best swimmers in the pool, it isn't even an argument. The other strokes probably shouldn't exist.

No one in the sport believes freestylers are automatically the best swimmers in the pool.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:28pm EDT

re: The Jericho Mile..

The Jericho Mile.. wrote:
Except where Spitz already did it, with fewer relays (7 gold's, 4 individual Wars), an arguably superior performance to Phelps

No!

Spitz couldn't swim the IM! I think his backstroke was ok but no breast. Phelps 400 IM is amazing. All 4 strokes for distance.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:28pm EDT

re: Mikeh33

Mikeh33 wrote:
the jericho mile. wrote:
he's not even the best swimmer though. The best swimmer is the most dominant and/or WR holder in the 100m freestyle
So the best swimmer is either David Popovici, Caleb Dressel, or Cesar Cielo. Depending on how you look at it. Cielo's is a super suit record but his performance solid.
Also Matt Biondi at one point had like 15 of the worlds top 20 100m free times, so he is also on the list.
Not so. You listed the best freestylers. The best swimmers in the world are those who do multiple events or the Individual medley, which is a race with all four strokes. Phelps is easily the greatest individual medley swimmer who ever lived.

Some people consider events like backstroke, breaststroke, butterfly to be the equivalent of track events featuring backward running 800 meters or skipping 1500 meters. Basically silly - not something to be taken seriously.

As such, only the freestyle is of any relevance when considering best swimmers.

For my money, I think that TRUE freestyle - not limited to the crawl stroke - should be the only swimming event (with various distances). Swim any way you want, fastest over the given distance is the true champion.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:31pm EDT

re: Mikeh33

Mikeh33 wrote:
The Jericho Mile.. wrote:
No one in the sport believes freestylers are automatically the best swimmers in the pool.

Being one the inside sometimes clouds one's vision. This is true in all of life, not just sports.

The truest critiques of pretty much any human activity or organization come from those who are not immersed in that particular activity or organization.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:32pm EDT

re: jamese1045

jamese1045 wrote:
yup..... wrote:
He's DOMINATED. Swimming allows multi-events, but still much better than anyone else.
Hasn’t Katie Ledecky surpassed him?

Apples and oranges. Ledecky only swam (swims) freestyle. Although fantastic, Phelps swam IM which is all 4 strokes.

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:33pm EDT

re: Real Obvi

Real Obvi wrote:
Mikeh33 wrote:
No one in the sport believes freestylers are automatically the best swimmers in the pool.
Being ON the inside sometimes clouds one's vision. This is true in all of life, not just sports.
The truest critiques of pretty much any human activity or organization come from those who are not immersed in that particular activity or organization.
- correction -

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:33pm EDT

re: Real Obvi

Lochte would be the fastest there too , only the 15m underwater rule prevented Him from taking every world record

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:41pm EDT

re: yup.....

Michael Phelps is history's best athlete in the history aristocratic systems.

To be the best, you must earn it with equal changes.

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3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:43pm EDT

re: The Jericho Mile..

OG or world champs IM gold's alone is 17 to 13 Lochte

They both hold a single WR still , lochte 200im, and Phelps the 400im

Phelps has more top 10 and 20 swims in the 200im (the one that matters)

Lochte is clearly the better IMer

3 years ago 09/22/2022 8:44pm EDT

re: The Jericho Mile..

That was supposed to read lochte has more top 10 and 20 200im swims, it's not really a contest. Unless you only follow swimming during the OG

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