I do not know. But I trust the antidoping system, and I believe that Shelby Houlihan doped. I thought before she was caught that there were enough red flags about her performance and progression and why she raced that I was not surprised she eventually tested positive. Perhaps other athletes that are doping will soon test positive.
The “antidoping system” intentionally lets people slide to maintain interest in the sport. They occasionally bust people (like Houlihan) to appear credible to the public
Yes, 1 million percent yes most are using a variety of substances. The testing methods can not and will not be able to compete with the evolving world of drugs. Look, all these drugs filter down to athletes out of different trials/studies, many of which never make it out of rodent studies. From these trials which never make it to human trials the world of bodybuilding takes the performance enhancing ingredient's and make themselves the human studies. From here it trickles down to whatever sport you choose, if its endurance, you see where the bodybuilders tout an endurance edge and it finds its way into say distance running. There will always be new ways to manipulate the chemical equations to “improve” mitochondria, testosterone, insulin, fat instead of glucose systems and so on. I dont make the rules, these are just facts. As long as people are unhealthy in the world, big pharma will try and often fail to find solutions, those failed tests are holy grails for info for athletes. So the tests cant compete with that evolution, and its also not like everyone gets tested all the time anyway. And if you think there arent insiders at meets and at wada blah blah to avoid certain meets and so on then wake up.
An official thread for your dicussions about doping. Enough littering every other thread and taking away the joy of sports.
The question might be rephrased: how can we be confident anyone isn't doping?
A few uncomfortable facts:
- As far back as 1996 it was estimated that up to 80% of participants at Atlanta would be doped. (There was also no test for EPO then, so it would have been present in running).
- Only 1-2% of tests produce a positive. Confidential athlete surveys have proven that doping far exceeds the numbers caught. Ergo, most dopers are not caught. In the words of a former WADA head, "only the dumb and the careless are caught".
- In the words of another former WADA head, David Howman, "doping is more sophisticated than antidoping". Hence, doping remains ahead of antidoping.
- It is found in all sports. According to antidoping expert Renee Ann Shirley, "doping is present in all sports in all countries at elite levels, with the frequent collusion of sports governance bodies". It has been found in championship darts, curling and chess.
- Doping is not confined to elites and professionals. It is known to be present in schools and colleges.
- The question every athlete is faced with today is whether they are prepared to use everything available to them to succeed - which, for many, includes doping. They will know that many of their competitors will dope. In some countries we have seen that doping is about 99% at the top - as in Russia, where it is state-sponsored. How many athletes are prepared to lose to those they believe are dopers?
Since those are just some of the factors that indicate the likely prevalence of doping today, the question remains - how confident can you be that any athlete (and especially your favorite) isn't?
The only athletes I actually believe is clean and medalling at world level are Laura Muir, Athing Mu and Keely Hodgkinson.
Another point I forgot to mention. And I hope this doesn't come across wrong.
Running has been dominated by East Africa, North Africa, and the Caribbean for some time. People in these countries have....less moral qualms with cheating when the reward is lucrative. Even in countries like China and Korea there is really no moral code that prevents cheating in really any sort (go try and teach university in China or Korea and try and "stop" cheating on tests...see how that goes across).
You really think runners in Ethiopia are morally troubled by taking some designer doping drugs?
EVEN in America, which has a strong anti-corruption culture vs the rest of the word, and where cheating is still taken seriously in school, so many of our star track runners have been caught doping.
I wouldn't say EVERYONE is doping, but everyone good is doping.
Look at the top 10 mens 100m times. 9 of them confirmed doping, and the top guy (Bolt), producing a positive test would ruin the sport so him being caught was never in the interest of the sport.
So 90%+ confirmed for just one event, but we should assume all the other track events are clean?
There very likely hasn't been a clean track medal in two generations.
Lance Armstrong, who participates in a sport that's culturally similar to distance running, was a vigilant anti-doper. We all know how that turned out....
Cycling has an institutional doping problem but endurance running doesnt? Lol!
How many more people need to be caught for some of you to pull your head out of the sand?
And then some middling pro will come on here and talk about how he never dopes, and as far as he's concerned his competition isn't. That's why you are not winning competitions/medals.
The problem for many fans is that to see sport as it really is would produce such disillusionment that it would end whatever pleasure they take from top-level sport. They cannot afford to do that. It would be like losing their religion.
My best guess here would be that, like NOP, everyone elite is (at very least) trying their best to toe that “gray area” with substances. Like other posters have mentioned I refuse to believe that training or “human potential” has changed so greatly in the last 20 years that minutes have been taken off the marathon WR, seconds off 400 hurdles, etc. Sure there are generational talents, but are they that talented they can 100% natural best the record of athletes who were proved to be on the sauce?
Another point I forgot to mention. And I hope this doesn't come across wrong.
Running has been dominated by East Africa, North Africa, and the Caribbean for some time. People in these countries have....less moral qualms with cheating when the reward is lucrative. Even in countries like China and Korea there is really no moral code that prevents cheating in really any sort (go try and teach university in China or Korea and try and "stop" cheating on tests...see how that goes across).
You really think runners in Ethiopia are morally troubled by taking some designer doping drugs?
EVEN in America, which has a strong anti-corruption culture vs the rest of the word, and where cheating is still taken seriously in school, so many of our star track runners have been caught doping.
Let posit this as a thought experiment.
Does doping dramatically improve performance and increase earning potential for runners? Yes.
Is doping easy to obtain, safe, and effective? Yes
Let's go through the reasons why people would NOT dope.
1. Fear of getting caught
2. Morally against it/avoiding guilt
3. Don't need to take it to win medals
However, its very very easy to NOT get caught. And from looking at the top mens 100m times historically and seeing 9 out of10 busted for doping, there's very very few people that don't need to dope to win.
Thus the only thing stopping people from doping is their own morals and living with guilt. How many people do you think truly have it in them to resist? I'm not sure I know that answer but I bet many are more than willing to self rationalize the choice.
Another point I forgot to mention. And I hope this doesn't come across wrong.
Running has been dominated by East Africa, North Africa, and the Caribbean for some time. People in these countries have....less moral qualms with cheating when the reward is lucrative. Even in countries like China and Korea there is really no moral code that prevents cheating in really any sort (go try and teach university in China or Korea and try and "stop" cheating on tests...see how that goes across).
You really think runners in Ethiopia are morally troubled by taking some designer doping drugs?
EVEN in America, which has a strong anti-corruption culture vs the rest of the word, and where cheating is still taken seriously in school, so many of our star track runners have been caught doping.
This is absolutely true, but a lot of people will refuse to admit the truth - they are too weak and don't want to be seen as a 'baddie'. It may be construed as raaaaycccccist...So, they'd rather lie to themselves and everyone else; these weak and stupid people can then claim the moral high ground based on a lie to make themselves feel better.
So don't worry about it. The truth isn't always 'fair' or comfortable, but it is still the truth.
I don't know why you'd watch a sport where you assume everyone is cheating.
I'm a college t&f coach and have been for 30 years. I *don't* watch professional track, including OG and WC. I'll use some YouTube clips for technical examples, but that's it.
Thered be no track and field or sport,if everyone got caught doping.
That's probably true. Alternatively, if all the dopers were caught there would be no doping. Most events would look much like those of half a century ago. Runners like Dave Wottle would still be winning at the Olympics. In the same times.
I have no more insight into who might be doping than the casual fan does. Fans often seem to think in the call room athletes discuss all their pharmaceutical habits, but those that are doping tend to keep that stuff private.
Yes, if I doped, of course I would be faster. That's a stupid question
You're being very unkind to rekrunner, who has argued for years that doping for distance runners tends to have at best a placebo effect only.
- If you do you believe you would be faster then you would undoubtedly be more successful. So why haven't you doped, when others will?
- There are athletes who show a number of red flags - like showing dramatic overnight and even cyclical improvements. There are sometimes doping rumours. Do athletes not sometimes talk about that or is the question of doping simply avoided?
I don't find it unkind -- I have also argued that belief is both wide and deep, and goes all the way to the top. Furthermore, placebo effect is still an effect and will make you faster.
I'll take it further. Its immoral for them to NOT take them. They dont have YOUR idea of a moral dilemma, they have a real one--Hey I can live in this filthy, disease ridden village where my family is dying, or travel the world, make some money that will support my family for 10 years, take some compounds that get my faster and if I get caught who gives a rats a--, mind you my family hasnt had all the medicine you western families take for granted like vaccines and anti-biotics, which I guess help you live longer and thus train more, but yeah your morality on "cheating" trumps mine where I go run in a dumb circle until I get caught..who cares? The reality is no one really really cares. Even you. I mean, its not like you are EVER going to be racing for a DL ring. People cheat to get into college, in politics, the legal system, taxes, on their wives, and you care if someone takes a testosterone supplement where they run 1:43.2 instead of 1:44.5...No.....body....cares...Did you see the world champs at Eugene? there were three people in the stands.....
Lots of comments on how doping would ruin the sport. If everyone is cheating it for sure would be #badforthesport but definitely would NOT ruin it. Just brings the pros to a new level. Like superspikes that only the pros could wear.
You're being very unkind to rekrunner, who has argued for years that doping for distance runners tends to have at best a placebo effect only.
- If you do you believe you would be faster then you would undoubtedly be more successful. So why haven't you doped, when others will?
- There are athletes who show a number of red flags - like showing dramatic overnight and even cyclical improvements. There are sometimes doping rumours. Do athletes not sometimes talk about that or is the question of doping simply avoided?
I don't find it unkind -- I have also argued that belief is both wide and deep, and goes all the way to the top. Furthermore, placebo effect is still an effect and will make you faster.
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