Pete Rose made a comment that made great sense to me...typically two of the weakest offensively in the lineup are 2nd base and catcher, so if you have great offensive players there, you have a chance to have a great team. He made that point talking about Joe Morgan and Johnny Bench, and I actually considered both of them to fill those roles, but I went with Rod Carew at 2nd base just due to his hits and average advantage.
I am also not considering any cheaters or players from before Jackie Robinson. I really WANT to pick a starting pitcher here, but every 5th day just doesn't do it for me. I considered Mariano Rivera as a closer, but for me Hank Aaron edged him out. If we got to pick 4 players, Rivera would be 4th.
So, I would pick these three and in this order:
Johnny Bench at catcher (even though Piazza had better offensive stats)
Rod Carew at 2nd base
Hank Aaron in right field
Considering a reliver is disqualifying. Like thinking the most important part of a DMR is the 400 leg. The distance between Aaron and Rivera in terms of production is way (way way) more than the difference between Rivera and a double A player.
There is a case to be made for a great hitting catcher since the position is so valuable and unique defensively, but basing other decisions on defense doesn't make much sense either. A below average fielder with a tremendous bat is leagues more valuable to a team than a tremendous defender with a below average bat. Selections should be made to maximize value, so in my mind doesn't make sense to select for positions where there is minimal value relative to other positions. Kind of like selecting a kicker in football in the 1st round
Pedro was my favorite player ever. His late 90s early 2000s run was the brightest any pitcher has ever burned. Hard to argue against 5 Cy Young's or whatever it is for Johnson.
Koufax just didn't have staying power in my opinion-- only 6 years where he was really a standout player. Too many great players who lasted for 2 decades to use a pick on him.
If going for a dominant rotation (which I think is a great strategy especially if you get some workhorses in there who can pitch on short-rest down the stretch or come playoff timea la '08-'10 CC Sabathia or '12-'14 Bumgarner). I might use my pick on Maddux or Neikro instead. Imagine 3 ABs against Johnson and the next day getting the polar opposite with either Neikro or Maddux only to have to follow that up with Pedro. Just for consistency/reliability reasons I'd probably pick Maddux of the two so would go Johnson, Maddux, Pedro with that strategy.
Koufax doesn't belong in the first round never mind number 1 overall.
A great pitcher, but one who only was above average for 6 years. If you have everyone in baseball history to pick from, there are many players with both a better peak and a longer career.
1) No, not underestimating Robinson. I considered him. I pick Carew. Carew hit .328 for his career and was consistently great for the entirety of his career. SUPER GREAT and deserving of this pick.
2) Ricky Henderson was not a 2nd baseman or catcher, so he can't fill those roles which are required in my picks, and he can't beat Hank Aaron in the outfield. Picking a leadoff hitter is not in my top criteria.
3) Hank Aaron was better than Willie Mays, that's why I picked him. Higher batting average, more HRs, more hits, more RBIs, great for longer in his career than Mays. Aaron even won 2 batting titles to Mays' 1. Mays was better in the field and running the bases, but that's it. Aaron is the greatest player in the history of Major League Baseball.
4) I absolutely can and will sort out the cheaters. Bonds was the greatest player you ever saw on steroids. He was a .281 hitter in Pittsburg averaging 25 HRs per season. He would have ended up with 450-500 HRs IF he stayed healthy without the steroids, and he almost for sure would have made the Hall of Fame (though Dale Murphy won 2 MVPs and isn't in, and Fred McGriff hit 493 HRs and isn't in), but no guarantee.
Isn't the premise of this thread to choose these players in the draft at age 20? None of the players unless they were known to dope before being drafted are dopers. If you pick them, you have the possibility of preventing them from ever doping.
After previously looking at every position’s all-time home run, hit and RBI leader, we’ll now turn our focus to the Wins Above Replacement leader (per Baseball-Reference) at each spot on the diamond. For the purposes of this...
I didn't pick Mike Trout only because his career is not yet over, AND he now has back issues that might derail the rest of his career...I really hope not.
I would definitely not pick Koufax. His first 7 seasons were mediocre or subpar. Then he finishes his career with 5 fabulous seasons. So, for most of his 20s he is not doing much. Bench was a great catcher and has the best all-time WAR among catchers but I think there are better options. Trout has had a great career so far but let's see what he does for the rest of his career.
I didn't pick Mike Trout only because his career is not yet over, AND he now has back issues th88at might derail the rest of his career...I really hope not.
I would definitely not pick Koufax. His first 7 seasons were mediocre or subpar. Then he finishes his career with 5 fabulous seasons. So, for most of his 20s he is not doing much. Bench was a great catcher and has the best all-time WAR among catchers but I think there are better options. Trout has had a great career so far but let's see what he does for the rest of his career.
To follow up, Koufax was only 36-40 in his first 6 seasons. His ERAs for the last 4 seasons were 1.88, 1.74, 2.04 and 1.73 (which incidentally what Verlander has so far this year).
I think pitching and getting on base are more important than power numbers so I'd go, in order:
Sandy Koufax Nolan Ryan
Ichiro Suzuki. This was a hard one. It was between him, Tony Gywnn, and Pete Rose. I went Ichiro because had he played in MLB his whole life instead of starting in Japan I think he would be better recognized as the greatest hitter in the past 50 years.
I think pitching and getting on base are more important than power numbers so I'd go, in order:
Sandy Koufax Nolan Ryan
Ichiro Suzuki. This was a hard one. It was between him, Tony Gywnn, and Pete Rose. I went Ichiro because had he played in MLB his whole life instead of starting in Japan I think he would be better recognized as the greatest hitter in the past 50 years.
Pedro was my favorite player ever. His late 90s early 2000s run was the brightest any pitcher has ever burned. Hard to argue against 5 Cy Young's or whatever it is for Johnson.
Koufax just didn't have staying power in my opinion-- only 6 years where he was really a standout player. Too many great players who lasted for 2 decades to use a pick on him.
If going for a dominant rotation (which I think is a great strategy especially if you get some workhorses in there who can pitch on short-rest down the stretch or come playoff timea la '08-'10 CC Sabathia or '12-'14 Bumgarner). I might use my pick on Maddux or Neikro instead. Imagine 3 ABs against Johnson and the next day getting the polar opposite with either Neikro or Maddux only to have to follow that up with Pedro. Just for consistency/reliability reasons I'd probably pick Maddux of the two so would go Johnson, Maddux, Pedro with that strategy.
I wanted to start with pitchers- 2 lefties and a righty. Being a NYer and anyone but Boston fan I didnt like Pedro but recognize his greatness. I considered Greg Maddux and Nolan Ryan, and even Bob Gibson and Roger Ckemmons but I couldn't go against my Brooklyn born guy.
1) No, not underestimating Robinson. I considered him. I pick Carew. Carew hit .328 for his career and was consistently great for the entirety of his career. SUPER GREAT and deserving of this pick.
2) Ricky Henderson was not a 2nd baseman or catcher, so he can't fill those roles which are required in my picks, and he can't beat Hank Aaron in the outfield. Picking a leadoff hitter is not in my top criteria.
3) Hank Aaron was better than Willie Mays, that's why I picked him. Higher batting average, more HRs, more hits, more RBIs, great for longer in his career than Mays. Aaron even won 2 batting titles to Mays' 1. Mays was better in the field and running the bases, but that's it. Aaron is the greatest player in the history of Major League Baseball.
4) I absolutely can and will sort out the cheaters. Bonds was the greatest player you ever saw on steroids. He was a .281 hitter in Pittsburg averaging 25 HRs per season. He would have ended up with 450-500 HRs IF he stayed healthy without the steroids, and he almost for sure would have made the Hall of Fame (though Dale Murphy won 2 MVPs and isn't in, and Fred McGriff hit 493 HRs and isn't in), but no guarantee.
You are off in your Mays v Aaron comparison. First off, Mays was a vastly better fielder and played a far more important defensive position. Mays has 12 gold gloves to Aaron’s 3. That’s big as you know. Aaron has higher cumulative totals because he played more games and had more plate appearances as Mays lost 2 key seasons to the army. They are nearly indentical in batting average, OBP, SLG and home run rate per plate appearance and in fact Mays is better in OBP and SLG and significantly better WAR 156 v 141. So offensively I think it’s tied, maybe you’ll give Aaron the nod, but then you are losing out on one of the greatest if not greatest center fielders ever. Really surprised you think Aaron is better than Mays.
1) No, not underestimating Robinson. I considered him. I pick Carew. Carew hit .328 for his career and was consistently great for the entirety of his career. SUPER GREAT and deserving of this pick.
2) Ricky Henderson was not a 2nd baseman or catcher, so he can't fill those roles which are required in my picks, and he can't beat Hank Aaron in the outfield. Picking a leadoff hitter is not in my top criteria.
3) Hank Aaron was better than Willie Mays, that's why I picked him. Higher batting average, more HRs, more hits, more RBIs, great for longer in his career than Mays. Aaron even won 2 batting titles to Mays' 1. Mays was better in the field and running the bases, but that's it. Aaron is the greatest player in the history of Major League Baseball.
4) I absolutely can and will sort out the cheaters. Bonds was the greatest player you ever saw on steroids. He was a .281 hitter in Pittsburg averaging 25 HRs per season. He would have ended up with 450-500 HRs IF he stayed healthy without the steroids, and he almost for sure would have made the Hall of Fame (though Dale Murphy won 2 MVPs and isn't in, and Fred McGriff hit 493 HRs and isn't in), but no guarantee.
You are off in your Mays v Aaron comparison. First off, Mays was a vastly better fielder and played a far more important defensive position. Mays has 12 gold gloves to Aaron’s 3. That’s big as you know. Aaron has higher cumulative totals because he played more games and had more plate appearances as Mays lost 2 key seasons to the army. They are nearly indentical in batting average, OBP, SLG and home run rate per plate appearance and in fact Mays is better in OBP and SLG and significantly better WAR 156 v 141. So offensively I think it’s tied, maybe you’ll give Aaron the nod, but then you are losing out on one of the greatest if not greatest center fielders ever. Really surprised you think Aaron is better than Mays.
To add additional context, this also comes down to valuing the players at their very best versus the longevity of their being outstanding. During his best 10-15 years Mays was greatest player ever, an unsurpassed hitter, greatest fielder and amazing base runner. In his later years he declined markedly. Aaron was the great compiler who remained highly productive and outstanding even in his later career. Aaron had more excellent years. However, at his peak, which was well over a decade, Mays was the most spectacular player ever. So I guess I’ll take Mays age 20-30 >> Aaron at that age and then Aaron age 30-40 > Mays at that age.
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