Done with BTC after that 5K

What got me was they were exhausted at the finish, collapsing on the track. Infeld even after a 15:30.

The white women got last, second-to-last, third-to-last and fourth-to-last.

Indeed, they are now being watched at home by the AIU on top of the lenient USADA. No more warning calls for BTC athletes...

you have to Want it More

To be fair to the frustrated posters in here…it seems like the reason they weren’t capable is because Schweizer may have overdone it at USAs and Cranny overtrained for the time trials and altitude camps etc. so if you’re going to preach about gearing everything for Worlds, why is Karissa racing 3 intense rounds of an event she won’t contest and why is Elise red-lining in March/April? To Jerry’s credit he’s prepared Mo/Grant well, but it seems he’s got some things to figure out on the womens side this year.

This is an important point. Realistically, there are only 3 medals and a lot of world class runners.

I think success (as a nation/team) is measured in:

1. Getting to the final- having one in is the runner, having multiple in is the strength of the program.

2. Putting yourself out there to be a part of the race. I have to agree that they were all capable of running much faster than 2:40 at 800, at least be in the mix.

Having said that- there are rounds to run and that effects different people differently and the weather is a factor.

But, I, too, was wondering why they hung back and didn't at least try to move up and control the race.

Yes, I saw the exact same thing in my 8 year old son's track program. One of the parents ( a non-runner) advised his son to get right up with a certain runner who dominated every race and had a 1500 PR 25 seconds faster than their kid. You can imagine how it ended up. I teach my son that he runs what he is in shape to run. Simple concept, but it seems lost on some.

Exactly, they only ran a 4000M race, the first kilometer was 3:31, that is 17:35 for 5000M, in other words a warmup jog for these athletes. So why did the US Athletes not want to race for 4000M? I don't get it.

I do think there's room for some questioning of BTC's meet selection. Specifically, that the nature of championship/world class racing typically differs from medium/small meets (see the post about Cranny struggling with fluctuating pace). Additionally, it can't be a bad thing to get familiarity with your opponents by racing them several times.

There's a clear difference between Tsegay's preparation and Cranny's this year going into Worlds:

Tsegay 2022
Feb: WA Tour - France
Feb: WA Tour - Poland
Mar: WA Tour - Spain
Mar: Indoor World Championships (heats/finals)
May: DL - Pre
Jun: Slovakia (WA silver level)
Jun: DL - Bislett

Cranny 2022
Feb: Valentine - BU
Mar: Sound Running
Apr: Mt Sac
Jun: US Championships

Tsegay raced 5 gold-level pro races, World Indoors and a Euro silver-level race. Cranny's schedule is literally that of a collegian (and mostly against collegians). With this difference in preparation, it's not hard to see how a gulf can form between not necessarily two regions of the world, but two mindsets.

This is such a dumb take. Nobody should ever question any professional athlete with your logic. Somebody shut down all of the sport talk radio stations across the country asap

at the elite level most championship distance races are tactical. Even for good high schoolers (say <9:15) most championship 3200s are tactical. I remember one meet where we came through 2,400m at 7:30 and then ran a ~2:05 final 800.
it’s just tactics

Look closer, think harder.

Infeld ran the 1800m from 800m-2600m at exactly 14:30 avg. pace. Moreover, she ran individual 100m splits during that stretch of 16.24, 16.69, 16.96, 16.97. 17” per 100 is 14:10 pace - 16.24 is 4:03 1500 pace. That’s why she was exhausted after struggling home in 15:29.

Grovdal was the first non-African born finisher by running more her own race. She didn’t go in for any of the 16.x 100m splits (until her last 600), and was 8 seconds down from the lead at 3k. Of course, if one of the Americans had done that, she’d probably be getting crap from numerous LetsRunners for not trying to stick with the leaders…sigh.

I'm not an expert like most of the posters here so it doesn't matter much what I say but my main question is why was Schweizer doubling? If her focus was the 10000 then I suppose coming back in the 5000 for the fun of it is okay.

But given how good the top athletes are in the 5000 if it's true that she focused her training on the 1500 so that she would be able to compete with the top elites in the 5000, why run the 10000? That's the thing that doesn't make sense to me.

The rest of this thread isn't worth debating, everyone in that race was doing all they could do on that day... I actually enjoyed watching it.

If they are trained to be TTers, then they need to race like that. Use the race pace and strategy that will result in the best time, and accept whatever place that yields.

If you are doomed to finish 9th either way, at least do it running a PR.

I agree. That is the reason that many can run fast or faster in a time trial. Their mind has to focus on winning or placing as high as they can in a race. They can focus solely on themselves and their effort in a time trial. This is also the reason that the pace of rabbited races usually falls off once the the rabbit drops if there are several still in the hunt. The stress of trying to win is priority #1.

This also points out the need for most to get into high level races if they want to be a factor against those that do.

I think I agree. Losing while being satisfied you ran close to your potential probably feels better than losing by running 15 minutes. But that would also involve getting over the psychological hurdle of leading a top level race which is likely to happen if the Ethiopians are content with a 3:15 first km. But as Marc Scott once said, Bowerman don't lead races. It's the contradiction I was talking about in the BTC programme: they want to run championship races but they practice by running even-paced time trials. It may be related that their most successful athlete (outside of the steeples) is Ahmed who races on the circuit more frequently.

It does seem like Jerry pushed the crew a bit too hard this year. Frerichs has struggled this year (granted, she did find out she has celiac), Marc Scott hasn’t looked good. McGorty had a solid result in the 10 but I would have expected him to be closer to Klecker. Was also surprised to see McGorty struggle at USAs. Fraser and Tuntivate have had a rough season. Obviously Grant has been running great. Mo Ahmed didn’t look as good as I expected in the 10 or the 5 heats.

There was something that happened between March-present. All of them were in phenomenal shape in late indoor/early outdoor. Elise spectacular 5K/10K. Grant and Mo the same. Marc Scott big PB in 5K, great indoor worlds medal. Tuntivate great 5k. Go down the line. By Worlds, Karissa/Grant were still in top form, and Mo and Woody are at least close- bad luck for Woody on the fall (Mo will be judged on this 5,000). But for everyone else a good deal of regression. Maybe it’s a survival of the fittest/experience in Jerry’s system dynamic. I don’t put it all down to not doing real races. I’d put more stock into overtraining and too much intensity at altitude.

This might be your chance to meet Jamin, ladies!