For better or worse, when you chose to only run the steeple you’re always going to have somewhat of an asterisk next to all of your titles. Fan of her and Jager but that’s the truth. Especially when Jenny Simpson could have chosen to stay with the steeple and I’m sure would have beaten Emma for some US titles. Idk who, but I’m sure someone like rupp could have taken up the steeple and beaten Jager too
I’m not the guy you are responding to, but the 100/400 hurdles should absolutely not be looked at the same way as the flat 100 or 400.
It does make it less impressive to win an event that 95% of track athletes never do. Events like the 100, 200, 400, 800, 1500, 5000 are equalizers. Everyone in track is going to gravitate towards one of those events, and it is those events that determine where you stand among the whole landscape of athletes.
It is easier to win world or Olympic medals in events with barriers than in events that don’t have barriers.
Thank you. This was my point. There’s more competition in non hurdle events
I did some research on this. Here are the numbers of US women, not including Coburn, who have achieved a 1200-point score (the standard for excellence suggested earlier by another poster in this thread) in the 1500, steeple, and 5K during the years in which Coburn won a national championship:
2011 - 1 in 1500, 0 in steeple, 0 in 5K 2012 - 0 in 1500, 0 in steeple, 0 in 5K 2014 - 2 in 1500, 0 in steeple, 0 in 5K 2015 - 2 in 1500, 0 in steeple, 0 in 5K 2016 - 2 in 1500, 0 in steeple, 1 in 5K 2017 - 1 in 1500, 2 in steeple, 0 in 5K 2018 - 2 in 1500, 2 in steeple, 1 in 5K 2019 - 2 in 1500, 2 in steeple, 0 in 5K 2021 - 1 in 1500, 2 in steeple, 0 in 5K 2022 - 3 in 1500, 1 in steeple, 1 in 5K Avg - 1.6 in 1500, 0.9 in steeple, 0.3 in 5K
For context, a 1200 score for women is 4:00.74 in the 1500, 9:17.61 in the steeple, and 14:41.33 in the 5K.
At that high level of competition, it’s close. Definitely more competition in the 1500 during the first 5 years of Coburn’s national championships, but virtually equal the last 5 years. Compared to the 5K, the steeple competition has been stronger.
If we expand the analysis to include those with a score of 1175 (4:03.88, 9:27.59, and 14:54.09), here are the averages for those same 10 years:
4.9 women in the 1500, 3.0 women in the steeple (remember, not including Coburn), and 1.6 women in the 5K.
Again, we see there is more competition for national championships in the 1500 than the steeple, but less competition in the 5K. The steeple holds up as a competitive event. Defeating an average of 3 women per year with a steeple score of 1175 or higher to win 10 national championships is extraordinary.
Coburn has absolutely faced legitimate competition. If we look at her global medals, here are the 5K personal bests of some of the women she has defeated:
Etenesh Diro - 14:33 Beatrice Chepkoech - 14:39 Courtney Frerichs - 14:48 Ruth Jebet - 14:53 Sofia Assefa - 14:56
These times are more impressive when you consider that these women rarely get an opportunity to run a fast 5K because they are generally contesting their specialty event at high-level races when they are in top form.
Bottom line: Coburn is a great and deserving champion.
Your argument rests on a false assumption, since a 1200 score is easier to achieve in the steeple than in the 1500. The competition being harder in the 1500 is the reason for this. I have international junior medals in the steeple and ran that event partly because I was good at it, but also because qualifying and being competetive was easier. The scoring tables in general should be taken with a grain of salt - especially when comparing running events with non-running events and between genders. The absolute best ITW in the steeple are great, but getting to a sub-elite level are way easier in the steeple.
And to be clear, I’m not trying to dunk on Coburn or steepling. I very much enjoy watching this domestic rivalry and I’m excited to watch how Worlds unfolds.
10 US titles in the steeple is worth like 3 in a real event like the 1500 or 5000.
God I hate these anti-steeple put downs. If the steeple is so easy, why aren't more marginal 1500-5000 runners beating the world at it? The reason is that it takes a little bit of athleticism to hurdle and most distance runners don't have that. I believe it was Jerry Shumacher who said that to be a steeple runner you need to have the basic athleticism to make a layup and if you put 10 pro runners in a layup drill, 9 would miss. This is the truth despite the boasting on here about amazing feats of strength and agility.
I’m sure someone like rupp could have taken up the steeple and beaten Jager too.
Of all the hypothetical matchups, strange that you pick someone who in 10+ years never won a 5000 under 13:00 and was known for scratching when conditions were challenging.
What a weird thread. This was simply supposed to be appreciating someone winning 10 US steeple titles. The majority of those titles were against the current American record holder. Outside of Regina Jacobs no middle distance/distance runner has more titles in a single event. It’s an incredible achievement.
Coburn has mastered an event. Who cares what her other times are? she very clearly doesn’t focus on it. Why should she? She has carved out her place in this sport. Maybe others should learn from her. She has mastered an event and gotten the job done every single time she has competed since 2011.
Just appreciate it for what it is and stop trying to make yourself feel better by tearing down her and the event.
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