Fast 800s, including every world record ever set, is a positive split and the fast kicker is actually just better at maintaining a speed they all were running at.
This is not actually true. Most 800m world records have been set with a positive split, but a couple have been negative split including Jim Ryun's
Sahlman is exceptional because he is so unbelievably thin. It works for him, but I worry because most runners this thin end up with chronic injuries. Clearly what he and his coaches are doing is working, as he’s stayed healthy and put up phenomenal times.
I think this is why Gary Martin seems like the more interesting pro prospect. He looks to have the better physique and more fluid form, while Sahlman is gangly and doesn’t appear powerful. That finishing 200 is quick though! It will be great to see how Sahlman fills out (only slightly) with a stable college strength program, nutritionist, etc.
The sky is the limit for both of these kids, there’s a reason for so much excitement!
Good points. Regarding Colin's need to get stronger.... Watching Nico Young after two years in the NAU program, he looks much stronger and smoother than he did while running 8:40 at NP. Physical maturing clearly factors in but the NAU staff has done a good job helping him with more relaxed form. I expect Colin will see similar benefits as he trains at NAU.
Agreed that Martin is very smooth, and has a great sense of pace. He comes across as a great leader as well; I anticipate that he'll make a big impact at UVA both on and off the track.
Ok noob. When you have better endurance you can “kick faster” morons talk about kicks when they don’t understand it’s mostly focused on someone just not being as tired because they are the better runner.
Yes, if runner A is way fitter (more endurance) than runner B, it does not matter if B has better top speed. A will win. That’s true. However, in most races of this caliber the top runners are equally “fit” relative to the pace being run. Maybe this is less so in the 800, but certainly in longer races. Top end speed (kick) matters and distinguishes runners and the eventual outcome. You think the only thing that distinguishes Kerr and McSweyn or Gidey and Hassan or Hocker and Teare is their endurance at the time of a given race? No, for elite runners, the ability to change gears and rapidly reach a top end speed at the close of a race is a special skill/talent distinct from overall fitness/strength/endurance.
Fast 800s, including every world record ever set, is a positive split and the fast kicker is actually just better at maintaining a speed they all were running at.
This is not actually true. Most 800m world records have been set with a positive split, but a couple have been negative split including Jim Ryun's
Appreciate the correction. I'll go a step further.
24 of the 26 world records set in the modern era, including all of them since 1972, were a positive split. As the athletes have gotten faster (sub 1:44) they have abandon the idea that negative splits in the 800 is the way to go.
And I will add, the high school race that we are talking about was a positive split. The "kick" in this race was almost definitely just slowing down less.
Sahlman is exceptional because he is so unbelievably thin. It works for him, but I worry because most runners this thin end up with chronic injuries. Clearly what he and his coaches are doing is working, as he’s stayed healthy and put up phenomenal times.
I think this is why Gary Martin seems like the more interesting pro prospect. He looks to have the better physique and more fluid form, while Sahlman is gangly and doesn’t appear powerful. That finishing 200 is quick though! It will be great to see how Sahlman fills out (only slightly) with a stable college strength program, nutritionist, etc.
The sky is the limit for both of these kids, there’s a reason for so much excitement!
Good points. Regarding Colin's need to get stronger.... Watching Nico Young after two years in the NAU program, he looks much stronger and smoother than he did while running 8:40 at NP. Physical maturing clearly factors in but the NAU staff has done a good job helping him with more relaxed form. I expect Colin will see similar benefits as he trains at NAU.
Agreed that Martin is very smooth, and has a great sense of pace. He comes across as a great leader as well; I anticipate that he'll make a big impact at UVA both on and off the track.
Colin can power down protein and lift weights but doubt he could gain a single pound. Is he any skinnier than Nico Young?
Hoare. McSweyn. Teare. How about Ryun? Sahlman is pretty average size for a runner his age.
Hoare and McSweyn have thicker builds, and certainly thicker legs. Teare is nearly as skinny, but not quite. This is precisely my point. Sahlman will gain power and improve with another 5lbs in college. Very few are able to translate such a low BMI to elite success (Yomif Kejelcha comes to mind).
And not sure what you’re smoking, but Sahlman is absolutely NOT an average size for a distance runner his age. Are you kidding me? 5’11” 125 lbs is a BMI of 17.4. This is not only way below average, it is multiple standard deviations below, and not sustainable.
His college coach will understand this, and help him get stronger, as they did with Nico, who is now 7-10 pounds heavier and absolutely crushing it in college so far.
Hoare. McSweyn. Teare. How about Ryun? Sahlman is pretty average size for a runner his age.
Hoare and McSweyn have thicker builds, and certainly thicker legs. Teare is nearly as skinny, but not quite. This is precisely my point. Sahlman will gain power and improve with another 5lbs in college. Very few are able to translate such a low BMI to elite success (Yomif Kejelcha comes to mind).
And not sure what you’re smoking, but Sahlman is absolutely NOT an average size for a distance runner his age. Are you kidding me? 5’11” 125 lbs is a BMI of 17.4. This is not only way below average, it is multiple standard deviations below, and not sustainable.
His college coach will understand this, and help him get stronger, as they did with Nico, who is now 7-10 pounds heavier and absolutely crushing it in college so far.
Colin just finished one of greatest Senior years of XC and track, but you’re saying he could have been even faster had he been 7-10 pounds heavier? Whatever he weighs now is the perfect weight for him.
Hoare and McSweyn have thicker builds, and certainly thicker legs. Teare is nearly as skinny, but not quite. This is precisely my point. Sahlman will gain power and improve with another 5lbs in college. Very few are able to translate such a low BMI to elite success (Yomif Kejelcha comes to mind).
And not sure what you’re smoking, but Sahlman is absolutely NOT an average size for a distance runner his age. Are you kidding me? 5’11” 125 lbs is a BMI of 17.4. This is not only way below average, it is multiple standard deviations below, and not sustainable.
His college coach will understand this, and help him get stronger, as they did with Nico, who is now 7-10 pounds heavier and absolutely crushing it in college so far.
Colin just finished one of greatest Senior years of XC and track, but you’re saying he could have been even faster had he been 7-10 pounds heavier? Whatever he weighs now is the perfect weight for him.
There’s no world where a 5’11” kid weighing 125lbs is their perfect weight lol. He’ll gain every bit of ten pounds in two years. If not then he needs to.
Colin just finished one of greatest Senior years of XC and track, but you’re saying he could have been even faster had he been 7-10 pounds heavier? Whatever he weighs now is the perfect weight for him.
There’s no world where a 5’11” kid weighing 125lbs is their perfect weight lol. He’ll gain every bit of ten pounds in two years. If not then he needs to.
If he does gain weight, it will come from physical maturity. He ran 1:48 and was the best HS XC runner in the U.S. at 125lbs. I believe that had he been 5-10lbs heavier, he wouldn’t have been as successful.
Am I the only one who sees Martin as ultimately a 5,000m/10,000m guy like Fisher?!
I know he’s running 1:48, but watching his leg speed…
It will be interesting to see how it will play out. Fisher said this year that in HS he thought his future was at the 1500/mile, but he realized he would need to move up to be truly elite . He would have remained a 1500 runner if he could have been as good at that distance, but he’s just not quick enough. He half jokingly implied that every elite 5000/10000 runner dreams of being great at the 1500. Figuring out what events are best for your natural abilities should be a big part of college competition.
Am I the only one who sees Martin as ultimately a 5,000m/10,000m guy like Fisher?!
I know he’s running 1:48, but watching his leg speed…
It will be interesting to see how it will play out. Fisher said this year that in HS he thought his future was at the 1500/mile, but he realized he would need to move up to be truly elite . He would have remained a 1500 runner if he could have been as good at that distance, but he’s just not quick enough. He half jokingly implied that every elite 5000/10000 runner dreams of being great at the 1500. Figuring out what events are best for your natural abilities should be a big part of college competition.
Racing and comparing times during HS will already have determined someone’s best distance(s).
Speed kills but Martin comes out of a situation with no hs track and this is better speed than you'd think he'd have. He looks like a guy who could run sub 4 with 1:51, and here he is already at 1:48.59, just a half second back of Sahlman. Sahlman has that closing speed you need in championships, but he's more of a finished product for this level, as he's had college level coaching, and training partners, while Martin's had a 5:20 guy and a parking lot. I see Martin doing very well at the mile/5000m in college at UVA.
Racing and comparing times during HS will already have determined someone’s best distance(s).
Asking with no acrimony intended…
Was it clear out of HS that Fisher would be a 10000 runner? What’s Tuohy’s best event? Even after 2 years of college, I’m not sure we know. She should run the 10 as well.
Racing and comparing times during HS will already have determined someone’s best distance(s).
Asking with no acrimony intended…
Was it clear out of HS that Fisher would be a 10000 runner? What’s Tuohy’s best event? Even after 2 years of college, I’m not sure we know. She should run the 10 as well.
I doubt if Fisher ever had the 800m speed to really consider himself to be a 1500m specialist and the same for Touhy. It seems pretty clear that Sahlman will be a 15/5K guy. I don’t recall any well trained, elite HSer changing his stripes in college.
Racing and comparing times during HS will already have determined someone’s best distance(s).
Asking with no acrimony intended…
Was it clear out of HS that Fisher would be a 10000 runner? What’s Tuohy’s best event? Even after 2 years of college, I’m not sure we know. She should run the 10 as well.
I would have thought Fisher would have been a 1500/5000m runner and better at the 5. Touhy is clearly better at 5000m and most LRers agree given the multi-page,lifetime prediction for a PR was for the 5000m. I’m not sure whether she would be better at the 10 than 15 but it doesn’t really matter since she can focus on the 5 for years to come.
Seeing Sahlman up close yesterday I was amazed at his narrowness through the hips and legs, which explains for me his "floaty" style. He must have some real core strength to lay down such a good kick and not be flimsy in acceleration. It's like he is running slightly downhill at all times.
Of all the contestants at the meet, Nick looked the most pissed off on the podium. He will be training and racing with pure hate next year. Anyone know where he is going next year?
There’s no world where a 5’11” kid weighing 125lbs is their perfect weight lol. He’ll gain every bit of ten pounds in two years. If not then he needs to.
If he does gain weight, it will come from physical maturity. He ran 1:48 and was the best HS XC runner in the U.S. at 125lbs. I believe that had he been 5-10lbs heavier, he wouldn’t have been as successful.
You’re missing the point. As I stated in my first post, he’s so fast now BECAUSE he’s skinny, not in spite of it. Unfortunately, we know from history that this is not a great recipe for continual improvement, at least with most other runners.
Colin surely does not hope to top out at 3:52, 13:05, 27:00. He wants to be a world bearer. To maintain health, he will likely have to gain 5.
It’s not a criticism; the kid is absolutely incredible! It’s just an observation!
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