His Garmin says 99% of what he’s doing (all 2mile reps) has been aerobic so far. Incidentally, Garmin seems to like this type of training, because the watch says he has increased his VO2max 5-6 points since he started!
His Garmin says 99% of what he’s doing (all 2mile reps) has been aerobic so far. Incidentally, Garmin seems to like this type of training, because the watch says he has increased his VO2max 5-6 points since he started!
Garmin let me know that I was capable of running a 35:52 10k after running an 8 mile steady state at 5:46 pace last week.
Garmin also assumes your maximum HR is 200 if you don’t go in and adjust it. Someone your athletes age likely has a max of 170-180. This will not only put his training in the wrong HR zones, but also vastly overestimate his Vo2Max.
I didn’t say his Garmin VO2max was accurate, just that it’s taken a big jump since he started this training. And his improved Garmin race predictions have to be way too optimistic.
I don:t need to read further. Increase milage to 80mpw, gradually.
Yeah but I want to revamp my training from the bottom up and become more efficient with my mileage. There are local runners who have improved to 33/34 minutes on 40-50mpw and I know they aren't a lot more talented than me. They have been running for longer than me which is the only caveat.
Don't try to compensate volume by intensity. That works only up to a point.
And don't trust the volume others claim. Most of them are sandbagging or counting wrong.
Then maybe try breaking it up into 2x2mile at that pace and progress until you can do the whole 5 miles at that pace. Seems like you lack aerobic strength.
My PB is 37:01 which I achieved on 45 miles per week (I've also run a similar time on 60 miles per week avg during marathon training). I've plateaued and have tried to improve by going from 2 workouts a week to 3, but that got me injured. I've been running for 2 years pretty consistently.
Below is a typical week of mine (I know, not great). Where I live is pretty hilly. Is there anything major I can improve to break 36 minutes? Perhaps longer tempo runs? My BMI is 19 and I am quite light but somewhat prone to injuries, early 30s.
Monday: 8 miles @ 8:00-8:15
Tuesday AM: 5 mile tempo @ 6:30, PM: 5 miles @ 8:30
Wednesday: 9 miles including interval session (e.g. 6x800, 12x400, mile repeats)
Thursday: off
Friday: 5 miles @ 8:00-8:15
Saturday: 13 miles @ 8:00-8:15
Sunday: off
The Pro jumps in like the Kool-Aid man and help you out... :))) Your weekly schedule looks quite good , but I see it has to be refined a bit.Your 5 mile tempo is at too slow pace to give you the effect at your LT you need. I suggest you cut it out and instead run LT intervals at a faster pace and no need for a second run the same day. Then your interval session on Wednesday after Tuesday tempo workout is an absolutely disaster... )) You need at least one day easy or rest after a quality workout. Your easy pace is quite good and can just be refined a little. So, if I had been your coach your week to begin with had looked like this:
M: 60 min easy @ 8-8:05
Tu: LT intervals ( 800m- 2000m) to a total of 6-8 miles @ 6:05-6:08 , rec= wait easy walking back to 120 bpm
We: off
Th: 12-20 x 400m @ 83-84 sec , rec=wait easy walking 60-90 sec or wait until pulse is back to about 120 bpm.
Fr: 50-60 min easy @ 8-8:05
Sa: 70-80 min easy @ 8-8:05
Su: off
Try this and you will quite soon feel the difference and your race results will come down.Good luck!
My PB is 37:01 which I achieved on 45 miles per week (I've also run a similar time on 60 miles per week avg during marathon training). I've plateaued and have tried to improve by going from 2 workouts a week to 3, but that got me injured. I've been running for 2 years pretty consistently.
Below is a typical week of mine (I know, not great). Where I live is pretty hilly. Is there anything major I can improve to break 36 minutes? Perhaps longer tempo runs? My BMI is 19 and I am quite light but somewhat prone to injuries, early 30s.
Monday: 8 miles @ 8:00-8:15
Tuesday AM: 5 mile tempo @ 6:30, PM: 5 miles @ 8:30
Wednesday: 9 miles including interval session (e.g. 6x800, 12x400, mile repeats)
Thursday: off
Friday: 5 miles @ 8:00-8:15
Saturday: 13 miles @ 8:00-8:15
Sunday: off
The Pro jumps in like the Kool-Aid man and help you out... :))) Your weekly schedule looks quite good , but I see it has to be refined a bit.Your 5 mile tempo is at too slow pace to give you the effect at your LT you need. I suggest you cut it out and instead run LT intervals at a faster pace and no need for a second run the same day. Then your interval session on Wednesday after Tuesday tempo workout is an absolutely disaster... )) You need at least one day easy or rest after a quality workout. Your easy pace is quite good and can just be refined a little. So, if I had been your coach your week to begin with had looked like this:
M: 60 min easy @ 8-8:05
Tu: LT intervals ( 800m- 2000m) to a total of 6-8 miles @ 6:05-6:08 , rec= wait easy walking back to 120 bpm
We: off
Th: 12-20 x 400m @ 83-84 sec , rec=wait easy walking 60-90 sec or wait until pulse is back to about 120 bpm.
Fr: 50-60 min easy @ 8-8:05
Sa: 70-80 min easy @ 8-8:05
Su: off
Try this and you will quite soon feel the difference and your race results will come down.Good luck!
- The KOOL -AID man )) -
Wrong.
You shouldn't give an exact (almost exact in this case) pace for the easy runs. That's a rookie mistake.
But coming from an amateur like you, that's to be expcted.
The Pro jumps in like the Kool-Aid man and help you out... :))) Your weekly schedule looks quite good , but I see it has to be refined a bit.Your 5 mile tempo is at too slow pace to give you the effect at your LT you need. I suggest you cut it out and instead run LT intervals at a faster pace and no need for a second run the same day. Then your interval session on Wednesday after Tuesday tempo workout is an absolutely disaster... )) You need at least one day easy or rest after a quality workout. Your easy pace is quite good and can just be refined a little. So, if I had been your coach your week to begin with had looked like this:
M: 60 min easy @ 8-8:05
Tu: LT intervals ( 800m- 2000m) to a total of 6-8 miles @ 6:05-6:08 , rec= wait easy walking back to 120 bpm
We: off
Th: 12-20 x 400m @ 83-84 sec , rec=wait easy walking 60-90 sec or wait until pulse is back to about 120 bpm.
Fr: 50-60 min easy @ 8-8:05
Sa: 70-80 min easy @ 8-8:05
Su: off
Try this and you will quite soon feel the difference and your race results will come down.Good luck!
- The KOOL -AID man )) -
Wrong.
You shouldn't give an exact (almost exact in this case) pace for the easy runs. That's a rookie mistake.
But coming from an amateur like you, that's to be expcted.
Hahaha! This "Rookie" has coached 4 marathoners between 2:07 - 2:10 and until now 11 winners of international races and numerous of personal records by runners at all levels. I know my stuff.... ;) Have a nice day! ))
The Pro jumps in like the Kool-Aid man and help you out... :))) Your weekly schedule looks quite good , but I see it has to be refined a bit.Your 5 mile tempo is at too slow pace to give you the effect at your LT you need. I suggest you cut it out and instead run LT intervals at a faster pace and no need for a second run the same day. Then your interval session on Wednesday after Tuesday tempo workout is an absolutely disaster... )) You need at least one day easy or rest after a quality workout. Your easy pace is quite good and can just be refined a little. So, if I had been your coach your week to begin with had looked like this:
M: 60 min easy @ 8-8:05
Tu: LT intervals ( 800m- 2000m) to a total of 6-8 miles @ 6:05-6:08 , rec= wait easy walking back to 120 bpm
We: off
Th: 12-20 x 400m @ 83-84 sec , rec=wait easy walking 60-90 sec or wait until pulse is back to about 120 bpm.
Fr: 50-60 min easy @ 8-8:05
Sa: 70-80 min easy @ 8-8:05
Su: off
Try this and you will quite soon feel the difference and your race results will come down.Good luck!
- The KOOL -AID man )) -
Wrong.
You shouldn't give an exact (almost exact in this case) pace for the easy runs. That's a rookie mistake.
But coming from an amateur like you, that's to be expcted.
In contrary to your claim it`s a "rookie mistake" to run most easy runs by feel. Easy runs by feel is only a good choice when tired after a race or tougher workout.........
Oh dear, oh dear, six miles everyday of repetitions performed at ~half-marathon pace is going to break me?!? (even though I get to walk to full recovery between them?)
oh well, guess you’re not ready to physically adapt.
I still think you are trolling, but do you realize that the 40-weeks workouts consist of 10K@5:50 pace, which is basically target 10K pace, every day? A 37 minutes 10K runner would struggle running one of these workouts; an athlete that can string 7 of these in a week can probably break 35.
You shouldn't give an exact (almost exact in this case) pace for the easy runs. That's a rookie mistake.
But coming from an amateur like you, that's to be expcted.
Hahaha! This "Rookie" has coached 4 marathoners between 2:07 - 2:10 and until now 11 winners of international races and numerous of personal records by runners at all levels. I know my stuff.... ;) Have a nice day! ))
Those are all lies. So you are a rookie and a liar.
You shouldn't give an exact (almost exact in this case) pace for the easy runs. That's a rookie mistake.
But coming from an amateur like you, that's to be expcted.
In contrary to your claim it`s a "rookie mistake" to run most easy runs by feel. Easy runs by feel is only a good choice when tired after a race or tougher workout.........
As usual you are wrong. If you want to use a pace, at least you could say "not faster than 8:00-8:05/mi".
I'm guessing your lactate threshold is too low, see link at end for a good lactate training explanation, used by the Ingebrigtsens. Cruising at sub 6 must feel easy when fit, and sub 18 min 5k will be an important sub goal.
I was in very similar place to you, stuck at just above 6min mile pace, partly a mental block. After about 2 years I finally broke 6mins pace. So i bumped up my mile repeat pace, and had another drop again into low 36s (@3500 feet above sea level). I was mostly following Jeff Galloways old school book from the 80s which was quite intense compared to his newer walk-jog books. It was a progressive ramp up of mile and 400 repeats, but no more than twice per week. Long run slowly ramped up to 16 miles. About 50mpw total. In my mid 40s i needed 60-65mpw following Daniels, to stay in the 36s. Tapering helped. I trained year round, every 4th week or so was maybe 50% cutback, December mostly easy weeks. I think the progressive ramp up of intervals, followed by taper for goal race was key. Once tapered i could cut back mileage and intervals and race maybe 4-6 times in 2 months or so in summer, do a bit of a rebulid and race x-country in the fall. Peak fitness is a wonderful feeling even for non elites!
I don't think your VO2 max will be maxed out at 45mpw, but probably near it's peak anyway. Maybe more bang for buck to get lactate threshold as high as possible so cruising under 6min miles feels fairly easy. Marius Bakken's lactate training method might be an answer. He feels faster intervals are only a very small part of the training regimen, but he's talking in the context of high mileage with a *lot* of threshold intervals, so not sure it will work for you, though i wish i tried this approach because it seems better at reducing injury/chronic-tiredness.
My PB is 37:01 which I achieved on 45 miles per week (I've also run a similar time on 60 miles per week avg during marathon training). I've plateaued and have tried to improve by going from 2 workouts a week to 3, but that got me injured. I've been running for 2 years pretty consistently.
Below is a typical week of mine (I know, not great). Where I live is pretty hilly. Is there anything major I can improve to break 36 minutes? Perhaps longer tempo runs? My BMI is 19 and I am quite light but somewhat prone to injuries, early 30s.
Monday: 8 miles @ 8:00-8:15
Tuesday AM: 5 mile tempo @ 6:30, PM: 5 miles @ 8:30
Wednesday: 9 miles including interval session (e.g. 6x800, 12x400, mile repeats)
Thursday: off
Friday: 5 miles @ 8:00-8:15
Saturday: 13 miles @ 8:00-8:15
Sunday: off
The Pro jumps in like the Kool-Aid man and help you out... :))) Your weekly schedule looks quite good , but I see it has to be refined a bit.Your 5 mile tempo is at too slow pace to give you the effect at your LT you need. I suggest you cut it out and instead run LT intervals at a faster pace and no need for a second run the same day. Then your interval session on Wednesday after Tuesday tempo workout is an absolutely disaster... )) You need at least one day easy or rest after a quality workout. Your easy pace is quite good and can just be refined a little. So, if I had been your coach your week to begin with had looked like this:
M: 60 min easy @ 8-8:05
Tu: LT intervals ( 800m- 2000m) to a total of 6-8 miles @ 6:05-6:08 , rec= wait easy walking back to 120 bpm
We: off
Th: 12-20 x 400m @ 83-84 sec , rec=wait easy walking 60-90 sec or wait until pulse is back to about 120 bpm.
Fr: 50-60 min easy @ 8-8:05
Sa: 70-80 min easy @ 8-8:05
Su: off
Try this and you will quite soon feel the difference and your race results will come down.Good luck!
While helpful if you work or go to school, the idea of a 7 day training week is not necessarily ideal for training. Try a 9 or 12 day pattern instead:
9 day:
1) Tempo + easy
2) Easy recovery + strides
3) Easy recovery + strides
4) Intervals fast than race pace (so for you faster than 10K - down to3 K pace at some point)
5) Easy + strides
6) Easy + strides
7) Long run perhaps with some surges at MAR oe 1/2 Mar pace
8) Easy + strides
9) Easy + strides
Repeat......But you could alternate a tempo run in one 9 dy rotation with longer intervals in the next 1600-2000m; and do the smae idea with you interval day 800-1200m intervals one rotation and 300-600m the next...
I'm guessing your lactate threshold is too low, see link at end for a good lactate training explanation, used by the Ingebrigtsens. Cruising at sub 6 must feel easy when fit, and sub 18 min 5k will be an important sub goal.
I was in very similar place to you, stuck at just above 6min mile pace, partly a mental block. After about 2 years I finally broke 6mins pace. So i bumped up my mile repeat pace, and had another drop again into low 36s (@3500 feet above sea level). I was mostly following Jeff Galloways old school book from the 80s which was quite intense compared to his newer walk-jog books. It was a progressive ramp up of mile and 400 repeats, but no more than twice per week. Long run slowly ramped up to 16 miles. About 50mpw total. In my mid 40s i needed 60-65mpw following Daniels, to stay in the 36s. Tapering helped. I trained year round, every 4th week or so was maybe 50% cutback, December mostly easy weeks. I think the progressive ramp up of intervals, followed by taper for goal race was key. Once tapered i could cut back mileage and intervals and race maybe 4-6 times in 2 months or so in summer, do a bit of a rebulid and race x-country in the fall. Peak fitness is a wonderful feeling even for non elites!
I don't think your VO2 max will be maxed out at 45mpw, but probably near it's peak anyway. Maybe more bang for buck to get lactate threshold as high as possible so cruising under 6min miles feels fairly easy. Marius Bakken's lactate training method might be an answer. He feels faster intervals are only a very small part of the training regimen, but he's talking in the context of high mileage with a *lot* of threshold intervals, so not sure it will work for you, though i wish i tried this approach because it seems better at reducing injury/chronic-tiredness.
I still think you are trolling, but do you realize that the 40-weeks workouts consist of 10K@5:50 pace, which is basically target 10K pace, every day? A 37 minutes 10K runner would struggle running one of these workouts; an athlete that can string 7 of these in a week can probably break 35.
Firstly, the methodology is based on the idea of race-distance-equivalency, as provided in the Jack Daniels Calculator. The Tanda Calculator provides the guidance on what the average pace of all the training miles should be.
Would you try to train for a 2:46:xx Marathon (i.e., 36min 10k equivalency) on only 40miles a week? I wouldn’t either. But to have success in doing so, the Tanda research says all of those 40miles would need to be run at 5:50/mile average pace.
For comparison, the Tanda Calculator says that when training for a 2:46:xx marathon on 80miles a week, all of those 80miles need to be run at only 7:14/mile average pace.
One is free to argue that training for a 36min 10k on 80miles/week at 7:14 average pace is more manageable (less prone to injury or burnout) than on 40miles/week at 5:50 average pace.
As the race targets get slower, the requisite average training pace for even 45mile training weeks falls well within the aerobic zone. For example, per the Tanda Calculator, a 1:30:00 Half Marathon (3:07:36 Marathon equivalent) requires all 45 weekly miles to be run at 7:32 average pace, which is slower than Marathon pace for a 1:30:00 Half-Marathoner.
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.