Athletes that have raced previously without super shoes and now with super shoes KNOW that the times are faster now. anyone that does not believe this ? Ok then I dare you to race without your super shoe !!! not a chance anyone would risk a slower time or lose to someone wearing the super shoes
I agree with the ideas that the internet, more national meets and recent shoe developments have sped up high school distance running. The disappointing thing is that these faster high school mile times have not translated to faster American mile/1500m times at the top end. Legions upon legions of sub-4:05 milers in the last 20 years and almost none of them developed into a great miler afterward. Maybe 'good' at 3:35-3:38, but where's the great guy or guys who run 3:47 miles or 3:29 1500's? Nowhere. At least in the 1980s and somewhat in the '90s we had people who competed on the circuit regularly and were right up there with the best. Steve Scott, Jim Spivey, a few others. Scott in particular was also at it, giving his all, showing up in the big meets. Now we have virtually nobody. The few good guys rarely compete. Basically, we suck at the distance, and the high school revolution has done nothing to advance things. Centrowitz's gold; a fluke. He wasn't 1% the competitor of Steve Scott.
What happens post-high school (i.e. college system) is another conversation, but the high school surge is more about people getting more out of their talents at a younger age...not that there is more talent. They max out by age 18-20, then bow out of the event. The US is certainly better at 5k/10k. Interesting on that, but 1500m/mile - we suck.
Tracks are also faster than they were in the past. Especially indoor tracks.
So tracks, racing and training shoes, training knowledge, knowing when to rest!, kids expectations and the internet are all factors.
not sure if sprinting has actually gotten fast. All events over 400m for sure. Another factor may be that people are reaching puberty earlier, every generation, on average
When I was in high school 15 years ago the times were nothing like they are now. Not even close...
I ran in NY which has a ton of kids competing. It's not like over the course of these 15 years five times as many kids suddenly became devoted to hard training. It either has to be shoes nutrition or something else I'm not thinking of.
Better drugs, still no testing.
That's the thing about tying college entrance/scholarships to athletic ability is you provide a pretty large incentive for doping.
Legitimate question: what are people on this thread defining as “proper training?” I keep seeing that term used throughout this thread but I am unfamiliar with how high school kids are training now than they were ten or twenty or fifty years ago.
Legitimate question: what are people on this thread defining as “proper training?” I keep seeing that term used throughout this thread but I am unfamiliar with how high school kids are training now than they were ten or twenty or fifty years ago.
They're training like they used to in the 60's-70's and better in some regards, there's a reason we had so many sub 9 and a few sub 4 guys back then and now we finally have similar numbers.
OP mentions how much faster kids are than 15 years ago. Things are nowhere near as good as 45 years ago - at dstance.
High school sprints: flourishing.
High school middle distance: even better.
High school long distance: non-existent.
I guess Chapa's record has another 40 years to live!
I think there have been some high school boys that might have been able to break Chapa's 10k record but they haven't tried. Ritz, Rupp, C Sahlman, one of the Youngs.
Think about this, though. In the 60s, THREE guys broke 4:00 and a few others came close. So the potential has been there for more than 50 years. Maybe the question shouldn't be why so many kids have done it in recent years. Maybe it should be why didn't ANYONE do it in the 70s, 80s or 90s?
We had a really weak period of HS distance running, nationally, from about 1986 - 1998. It's been pretty good ever since Webb and Co. came along. No, not sub-4s really often like the last several years, but pretty good.
Hot damn. Why you gotta throw Hyde, McMullen, Todd Williams and other Mich studs from that era under the snowplow like that? C'mon Michiman.
OP mentions how much faster kids are than 15 years ago. Things are nowhere near as good as 45 years ago - at dstance.
High school sprints: flourishing.
High school middle distance: even better.
High school long distance: non-existent.
I guess Chapa's record has another 40 years to live!
PS. Let's see if we can break a record for downvotes. I know everyone who reads this post will be furious. I guess the truth hurts!
The young kids just want to hear how they are running these times because of training and not acknowledge the impact of the shoes. That’s where all the down votes are coming from.
I'm not going to even attempt to put % on each of these, but a combination of:
- kids with the right biological age/development to benefit from...
better training, technology (tracks, shoes, supplements, recovery aids), racing opportunities, belief and knowledge that it has been done before and they can do it themselves
Regarding the biological age - kids grow and develop at different rates. We all had a small kid in class that didn't grow for years, or another kid that hit a huge growth spurt and dominated sports due to physiological advantages from being further ahead in their biological development.
Better shoes means nothing if your kid is a year behind their compatriots in biological development (almost everything in life uses chronological age based on DoB, so take someone born August 2nd and compare them to someone born on July 27th in the same class). But being able to understand and identify this biological development is significant for coaching kids in any sport.
So, first of all, I am so happy to see so many high school kids to take on the challenge of running under 4 minutes. Yeah, shoes makes a difference, but as a semi good runner who dreamed of running under 4 back in the 90's, I think training is SO different. I never received the training I read about today, or the off training that needs to be done. The advance in training and diet and being able to share in social media is huge! We all thought that we could never run with the Kenyans. I think there is a movement happening that kids know what they need to do, and have the training available and are going for it, and it is exciting to see. Well that is my two cents from a guy in the 90's who only ran 3:49 for 1500, and thought I just need to run 90-100 miles in the off season to get better. The advances in training for maximum effect, and the mental training of running can not be underestimated. So cool to see these 18 year old kids addicted to the challenge of running fast. By the way, I was shocked to see Gary Martin lead that mile! I mean c'mon, even the winner at least admitted the balls for him to take it out. I am all in on supporting these kids to run as fast as they can.
I think theres lots of reasons.it could be science and nutrition,but thats unlikely and complete crap.It could be doping,which is likely,given that the usa and everyone who trains there,are the real world champions of drugs in sport.Theyre doing it younger and younger to hope to compete with the east africans.After all,its worked well for jakob ingebritsen .It could be the fancy shoes,which is even more likely.Or maybe track and field has suddenly become really popular,with a fast growing talent pool,and kids who suddenly love their running.Extremely unlikely.
Lots of these kids are 19, or about to be, which is different than before.
In my time you were only 17-18 at the end of HS, and barely 18 if that.
The school entry roll-over dates have shifted so kids start at an older age, mostly due to illiteracy and other lack of school preparation. As well, parents deliberately start kids late so they have an advantage as the oldest in their years.
Consider that in most states until fairly recently a kid didn’t have to turn 5 until Dec 31 the year he stars kindergarten. Meaning graduation in June at average age 18.0, max 18.5, minimum 17.5. (And no 19 year-old seniors running in June.)
Legitimate question: what are people on this thread defining as “proper training?” I keep seeing that term used throughout this thread but I am unfamiliar with how high school kids are training now than they were ten or twenty or fifty years ago.
I could get into specifics, but the basic explanation is that these kids that are running sub-4 have been training to break 4:00, even when they were 4:30 guys.
in the decades before, most HS coaches would see a 4:30 guy and give him training to run 4:26. Then once that was achieved they would give them training to run 4:20. Now they are training athletes to go 3:55-4:05.
Goal Pace training > Date pace training.
also
Set your goal pace for something truly great, not just a 5-10 second PR.