Is Haile Gebrselassie even Human?

He didn't just sniff the world record of 2:01:39, he ran 2:01:41 in poorer conditions. He also ran 2:03:03 and 2:05:04. One could make a valid argument that the two seconds slower performance was better. However, I question the way he rolled out the splits. His team defends them. They would know better than I.

His 5000m and 10,000m world records would stand today if supershoes did not exist.

Haile Gebr's 2:03:59 has to be right there too, as he did not get the advantage of the supershoes that Kipchoge and Bekele did. What about Kimetto? No supershoes, even faster.

The three are very much in the same universe. What we didn't get is a race between Kipchoge and Bekele at their best, which could have gone a long way into determining who is best....mind you, we would want a bigger sample size than one race....because people have bad days and great days.....10 x, head to head in Berlin....that would give us the answer. So the truth is, we will never know.

The Adizero Boost should be viewed as an early supershoe. It was the first marathon shoe in a long time to prioritize increased cushioning, and the TPU midsole was shown in the lab to increase running economy over EVA foam, by about 1%. All the top marathoners in the world were wearing it.

Also, Geb's marathon shoes had carbon plates.

Bekele and Kipchoge competed head to head at least in 4 marathons, both before as well as between Berlin’16 and Berlin’19, the two marathons that were the crown jewels of Bekele’s marathon career, so it’s strange to claim that we didn’t get a race between the two at their best. I think all you are saying is that there was never a race where their times were close, but that is precisely because Kipchoge blew everyone including Bekele out of the water every time they competed on road.

On road, we know. (On track/XC, we know as well.)

Wetcoast is right, we never saw them go head-to-head in the marathon when both were at their best. No doubt Kipchoge's accomplishments in the marathon are far greater than Bekele's, but I wonder how much faster the world record would be (and which of them would hold it) had Kipchoge run Berlin in 2019. Sadly we will never know.

KB is great & probably the greatest, but Kipchoge would have beaten him that day. Of course we can’t know that for certain, but EK would have pushed himself past any limits necessary to beat KB in a 2:01, near-WR or WR race. He knows he has the marathon and that KB has cross country and, although EK beat him in the 5k in 2003, the track. He have done anything to keep the marathon

Why do you ask? Do you think all that EPO abuse morphed him into something else?

Given he probably took more EPO in his career than the entire 1995 Tour De France field, it is amazing he is still here at almost 50.

irishtimes.com

What lies beneath Mo versus Haile? The truths they can’t disguise

Athletics: The number of banned Kenyans is not just a trickle – it is a steady flow

Open link

Bekele is the best, but Komen is the silliest thing I've ever seen.

Did you even read the article you cited? Geb is mentioned only to highlight his efforts to criminalize doping in Ethiopia and his decision to bar from his hotel property a well-known coach who had been linked to allegations of doping. Of course, that provides little evidence that Geb himself abstained from doping, but it provides no support at all for your contrary allegation that he used massive amounts of EPO.

“Frighteningly dominant”? Being a bit dramatic are we?

You make a valid point. However, I have no doubt if Haile had specialized in the marathon starting in 2000 or so, his 2008 time would have been minutes faster. Kopchoge specialized for almost his entire career so yeah that's 15? years of specialized marathon training vs 5? for Haile.

Kipchoge ran a marathon in 1:59:40. Fact is, every WR will be a damp squib until they surpass it.

Kipchoge even beat the unbeatable Mo Farah over 2 miles indoors in 2013. Kipchoge is like time cop taking on every boss from every era of running.

The titular premise being if these types are even human, I’m just versing in concert. :)

I do suspect Kipchoge’s aura intimidates runners in his lead pack. In Tokyo’20, although Rupp pleaded lack of memory of that exchange, it seemed very likely that Kipchoge “offered” for him or anyone else to take the lead for a bit, but no one had it in them to take it up, so he was like “fine, run by yourself then” and sped off to the finish.

This site gives too much love to the marathon. We get it it's the hobby jogger's fantasy. But it's one race that is honestly too long and requires too much special training. Bekele has been handing out Ls to all the great runners coming up, including kipchoge, his whole career. To top it all off he comes to the marathon at the tail end of his career and runs a frickin 2:01. Probably would have handed kipchoge his rear end one more time in the Olympics if he could stay healthy. But like I said the marathon is too long, might as well have an ultra in the Olympics too.

That sub 2 was a science fair project.

Bottom line is kipchoge doesn't belong next to them. Bekele is a little better than Haile and both are way more talented than kipchoge. It's more impressive to dominate the track the way they did than the supershow marathon era. Let me know when there's a single marathon that includes the all of the absolute best at once like a world championship/Olympic track race would.

Having 1 track gold compared to 8 of Bekeles makes this comparison very very laughable. The craziest part about all of this is that Bekele is better at XC than kipchoge is at the marathon while being only 2 seconds behind kipchoge out of his prime.

I even have Mo Farah (who was the last straw sending kipchoge to the marathon btw) ahead of kipchoge on my overall all time distance runner list. Don't want to come off as a kipchoge hater because he's unbelievable but recency bias is real folks. Don't get caught up in it.

Someone said this is comparing apples to oranges on the first page of the thread. This is more like comparing a Mandarin orange to a a bag of apples, oranges, and even some pears lol

Yep. Kipchoge is above them. The impact he's had on the sport of running can only be matched by Usain Bolt. Everything from the documentaries to the shoes have changed the landscape.

This is the day and age of social media and better technology. Not to take much from kipchoge but the same sub 2 project in the early 2000s gets way less press and coverage. Didn't Haile have his own Disney movie?

I will repeat what I wrote in the post you already quoted. You don’t have an objectively verifiable definition of “both at their best” other than that they both would run close times. The fact that that didn’t happen is indistinguishable from what did happen: Kipchoge decidedly beat Bekele all 4 times they competed against each other including within 6 months of when Bekele setting his marathon PB. If they hypothetically, say, compete another 10 times and Kipchoge wins every single time by over 2 mins, you won’t keep maintaining that Bekele was just not at his best, would you?

Bekele himself has admitted in interviews that although he dominated on track, Kipchoge was clearly more dominant on road.