Yes, I'm still waiting for the running media (including Let's Run) to interview Jerry/Shalane on GDS leaving. Now Lucia....will someone hold BTC accountable to this?
To be fair to Gault, he mentioned that Jerry rejected all his interview requests.
I wish this site, and other running media, would do their jobs and be actual journalists and not fans. Stop trying to be liked by the athletes and do some actual, in-depth journalism and ask hard questions. Pretend you are Woodward or Bernstein when asking the BTC questions.
Yes, “pretend” is exactly the right word. The difference is huge between being an actual journalist who needs to establish facts, gather evidence, write a draft, have multiple revisions/questions by editors, and a running website like this which is mostly very biased heresay.
So who are the five BTC women left? Karissa, Elise, Courtney, ?
Vanessa Fraser and the ither canadian Andrea Seccafien. Will be interesting to see what Seccafien does now.
The group had a lot of success with just four track women: frerichs, infeld, quigley and houlihan (w shalane and cragg as marathoners). The success with this smaller squad is what made such a large influx of top US womens talent into the group. Perhaps less people will be a good thing
There's more than one issue at play. Issue 1, and the more important one to me - two athletes leaving a pro group because they aren't sure the group is actually following the rules. Issue 2 - that BTC has an employee churn rate so to speak that implies dysfunctionality. Sure, half the women who left were unhappy with their own performances, but Jorgensen aside, Johnson, Infeld, Hall, Grace are all talented track athletes. The first three in particular had no business running some of the awful times they ran in 2021. If one of them ran like trash, you could maybe say "oh that's an athlete problem" - when 1/3 of your roster is blowing up and running times that wouldn't be competitive against some college teams then that's a system problem.
Both issues are summed up nicely by Sinclaire Johnson/Lucia Stafford. Johnson ran 4:03 and came 4th at outdoor champs in 2019 with OSU- yet somehow despite going pro Schumacher had her struggling to break 4:10 sometimes and coming DFL in the trials finals. Schumacher then gets someone with almost identical credentials as Johnson - Lucia Stafford (same age, 2:00/4:02 PRs), and loses her by *failing to mention when he recruited her that oh by the way, I'm coaching a banned athlete* and then when it's raised as an issue, refuses to make any concessions on the issue. That's bottom tier communication skills.
Posters can yap all they want about "divas" and "they sucked" - but the facts remain that in multiple ways it looks like Schumacher has dropped the ball recently. Losing multiple women capable of running 4:03/4:02 coming out of college is *never* part of the plan.
*unrelated question to the rojo/wejo/gault* - you mentioned in another thread that GDS also talked to you guys about Glasgow in her super long interview. The rumours I heard from other people in the Canadian running scene was that when she came back from the UK she was a mess physically; injured, and a bit of skeleton. And that basically her big breakthrough came from Young restricting her diet and overtraining her so she got one big improvement spike but then kinda broke like Konstanze Klosterhalfen or Mary Cain. The only thing she's said publicly is that she found Young quite controlling, but that's not necessarily the same. As a Canadian fan, it was very surprising to see her leave a group where she ran so well.
*unrelated question to the rojo/wejo/gault* - you mentioned in another thread that GDS also talked to you guys about Glasgow in her super long interview. The rumours I heard from other people in the Canadian running scene was that when she came back from the UK she was a mess physically; injured, and a bit of skeleton. And that basically her big breakthrough came from Young restricting her diet and overtraining her so she got one big improvement spike but then kinda broke like Konstanze Klosterhalfen or Mary Cain. The only thing she's said publicly is that she found Young quite controlling, but that's not necessarily the same. As a Canadian fan, it was very surprising to see her leave a group where she ran so well.
And the rumoured explanation for why GDS was broken but not Reekie or Muir, was that UK Athletics would send national team trainers and physios to camp with them but just for the GB women and that GDS couldn't use them. The Scots also had Team GB nutritionists/dieticians handling periodized nutrition while Young just "bro-scienced" it for Stafford.
Lucia off the Bowerman roster on the website. No announcement yet but no surprise either. Heard she's heading back to her original coach and not to Victoria with her sister.
Considering someone with inside knowledge posted this info on the original GDS thread is any of this news?
*unrelated question to the rojo/wejo/gault* - you mentioned in another thread that GDS also talked to you guys about Glasgow in her super long interview. The rumours I heard from other people in the Canadian running scene was that when she came back from the UK she was a mess physically; injured, and a bit of skeleton. And that basically her big breakthrough came from Young restricting her diet and overtraining her so she got one big improvement spike but then kinda broke like Konstanze Klosterhalfen or Mary Cain. The only thing she's said publicly is that she found Young quite controlling, but that's not necessarily the same. As a Canadian fan, it was very surprising to see her leave a group where she ran so well.
And the rumoured explanation for why GDS was broken but not Reekie or Muir, was that UK Athletics would send national team trainers and physios to camp with them but just for the GB women and that GDS couldn't use them. The Scots also had Team GB nutritionists/dieticians handling periodized nutrition while Young just "bro-scienced" it for Stafford.
I don’t think that’s a rumour, that’s just how the UK system works.
The entire support system is state funded so they would send all the medical staff on camps or up to Glasgow each week to treat Gemma and Laura. But that support would not be offered to non Brits. Rightly so.
Would make it very expensive for GDS to then have to pay for all that stuff just for herself.
Not only treatments etc but paying for the staff to fly out to camps and whatnot.
So no great surprise she didn’t fancy that any more.
Bit of a deep dive into Kate Grace’s Instagram shows that she had a bad case of Covid but is still with the bosshard group. Bosshard group seems like a better fit for her anyways
There's more than one issue at play. Issue 1, and the more important one to me - two athletes leaving a pro group because they aren't sure the group is actually following the rules. Issue 2 - that BTC has an employee churn rate so to speak that implies dysfunctionality. Sure, half the women who left were unhappy with their own performances, but Jorgensen aside, Johnson, Infeld, Hall, Grace are all talented track athletes. The first three in particular had no business running some of the awful times they ran in 2021. If one of them ran like trash, you could maybe say "oh that's an athlete problem" - when 1/3 of your roster is blowing up and running times that wouldn't be competitive against some college teams then that's a system problem.
Both issues are summed up nicely by Sinclaire Johnson/Lucia Stafford. Johnson ran 4:03 and came 4th at outdoor champs in 2019 with OSU- yet somehow despite going pro Schumacher had her struggling to break 4:10 sometimes and coming DFL in the trials finals. Schumacher then gets someone with almost identical credentials as Johnson - Lucia Stafford (same age, 2:00/4:02 PRs), and loses her by *failing to mention when he recruited her that oh by the way, I'm coaching a banned athlete* and then when it's raised as an issue, refuses to make any concessions on the issue. That's bottom tier communication skills.
Posters can yap all they want about "divas" and "they sucked" - but the facts remain that in multiple ways it looks like Schumacher has dropped the ball recently. Losing multiple women capable of running 4:03/4:02 coming out of college is *never* part of the plan.
*unrelated question to the rojo/wejo/gault* - you mentioned in another thread that GDS also talked to you guys about Glasgow in her super long interview. The rumours I heard from other people in the Canadian running scene was that when she came back from the UK she was a mess physically; injured, and a bit of skeleton. And that basically her big breakthrough came from Young restricting her diet and overtraining her so she got one big improvement spike but then kinda broke like Konstanze Klosterhalfen or Mary Cain. The only thing she's said publicly is that she found Young quite controlling, but that's not necessarily the same. As a Canadian fan, it was very surprising to see her leave a group where she ran so well.
Off topic - but I don't understand how/why you've put Koko and Cain in the same group? Koko has successfully competed at a high level since being a young teenager, making the transition to pros very smoothly and going on to win a global medal. Last year she ran a 10k national record and had a solid race in Tokyo. This year she ran 4:04 and 8:39 indoors - not at her best, but certainly respectable times and far from "broken" like Cain.
Her high points, longevity and career in general are in no way comparable to Cain.
Good point. While they are both now 25 years old, Koko (so far) peaked at age 22 in 2019, and Cain at age 17 in 2013. Koko might get back to her earlier level, Cain never ever, unfortunately.
Good point. While they are both now 25 years old, Koko (so far) peaked at age 22 in 2019, and Cain at age 17 in 2013. Koko might get back to her earlier level, Cain never ever, unfortunately.
Koko and Mary Cain are examples of the fine line that a lot of female runners walk between keeping their weight as light as possible but still having enough weight to stay healthy. Koko was naturally thin, but got even thinner. Both were clearly too thin for their bodies to stay healthy.
For what it's worth, here are the 5 Bowerman Babes remaining:
1. Courtney Frerichs: Staunchly defended Shelby, has an Olympic medal, had a suspicious improvement and significant physical change. Likely doping.
2. Karissa Schweizer: No suspicious improvement or body change, but 14:26 in and of itself is suspicious, and there are rumors she still trains with Shelby sometimes. Maybe doping.
3. Elise Cranny: Staunchly defended Shelby, had a suspicious improvement and significant physical change, and comes from a college program with a very poor reputation for doping control. Likely doping.
4. Vanessa Fraser: No real quality times to note, but did have a significant physical change, and comes from a college program with a very poor reputation for doping control. Maybe doping.
5. Andrea Seccafien: Only joined the group last year as part of the Canadian contingent and was likely lied to. Watch for her to be the next to leave the group.
For what it's worth, here are the 5 Bowerman Babes remaining:
1. Courtney Frerichs: Staunchly defended Shelby, has an Olympic medal, had a suspicious improvement and significant physical change. Likely doping.
2. Karissa Schweizer: No suspicious improvement or body change, but 14:26 in and of itself is suspicious, and there are rumors she still trains with Shelby sometimes. Maybe doping.
3. Elise Cranny: Staunchly defended Shelby, had a suspicious improvement and significant physical change, and comes from a college program with a very poor reputation for doping control. Likely doping.
4. Vanessa Fraser: No real quality times to note, but did have a significant physical change, and comes from a college program with a very poor reputation for doping control. Maybe doping.
5. Andrea Seccafien: Only joined the group last year as part of the Canadian contingent and was likely lied to. Watch for her to be the next to leave the group.
you note a significant physical change in most kd these girls.. but I’m not seeing it.
all of them look about the same as they have since college and/or HS.
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