Red team, I can’t imagine what you’ve seen or where you’ve been but you’re really missing out. I worked my butt off starting in the mid 1960s until 4 years ago when I retired in good financial standing. Those “attainable” items you mention were not easier to attain “in the f*cking 70s” like you might think. Through those 55 years we had some rough patches but in the long run I can’t say that it became any harder to attain those items for me or those around me. And in the last 20 or so years it included a large number of the day’s young with whom I had the pleasure of working. Oh and today, the house they attain today is easily twice the size we had to start with and the cars they have are much nicer. The middle class including myself is doing and can do very well....if they choose to do so. Oh I did “choose” to become one of those investors but unfortunately didn’t quite make it as one of those wealthy one.
Red Team I’m sure for every doom and gloom story you have I could give you 4 or 5 positives. Come on down to Houston, Austin, San Antonio, or Dallas. Long term things have been good for at least my 60 years down here. Not perfect but good.
There is a lot of information available online about rent, house, car, college, utility, food, and water prices over time in it's relation to inflation as well as it's relation to wages. And vice versa on all of that.
It is statistically harder for current 20-40s to afford anything then you did.
Statistically, accounting for inflation, they are paid less. They were required to get degrees that weren't required in your time. They paid more for college. Houses cost more. Rent costs more. Health insurance costs more AND covers less. Cars cost more. Food costs more. Utilities cost more
The most expensive items in someone's life --a house and college--are 3-4x more expensive when adjusted for inflation.
This is all very obvious to people who are not willfully ignorant. You boomers make up myths about gender studies degrees and avocado toast to feel ok about stagnating wages and skyrocketing cost of living. Quality of life is going down in America. It is getting materially worse to live here. That is the reality we grapple with while you fat boomers ride your Harley Davidsons around the all-white gated suburbs of Dallas Texas.
We boomers make up myths? I ride a good old Honda Interceptor. Who's the ignorant stereotyping now, huh?
Wages have been falling behind productivity and cost of living for decades. An ever-increasing % of workers cannot afford things that were once attainable (kids, college, home ownership, vacations). Inflexible expenses (food, housing, transportation) are harder to buy and take up more of their wages.
Is this due to worse technology, smaller markets, lower incomes for companies, higher business taxes? No. It's just wages intentionally flattening to increase corporate profits in all industries.
The anti-work "movement" is the logical result of that trend. People are fed up that jobs don't even give you the life you could have gotten in the f*cking 70s, and the only reason is the naked greed of generationally wealthy investors siphoning the lion's share of income from every industry AND getting tax breaks AND getting bailouts.
This was good.
Wake up if you're just gonna shill for corporations. There's no balance today. My parents & their parents grew up with good, union, jobs, where you could work an honest week & be able to take care of your family + buy a home + pay for college. Look at CEO to worker pay & how it has skyrocketed today.
The Amazon worker union is super encouraging. It's not about working less. Don't just give the corporate talking points. Middle class share of income was at its highest when union density was at its highest in this country. The right broke unions & corporations will pay obscene amounts of money to break unions rather than pumping that money into salaries/benefits. That's telling.
America's sectors are dominated by a handful of corporations. They rely on cheap labor but have more money to better take care of their workers. But they won't just do the right thing on their own. The free market types have no problem with that so what's the harm in letting workers form unions & see if their share should look differently. This is a good thing but the deck is stacked against workers considering unionization. There is no such thing as a free union election. The employer faces little consequence for violating labor law. They'll give a worker dozens of boogeyman anti-union talking points & all it takes is for one of those to stick to get a worker to vote against their interests. We gotta be smarter than that & see through why employers fight this so hard.
You had me until your last sentence. Stagnating wages have been a problem since around 1970 but as they stagnated gradually it took some time for the affects to be felt. Still, boomers have been affected by the stagnation as well as millenials. College costs have gone off the chart and it's mostly because a) the ratio of administrators, who produce basically nothing but get nice salaries for doing it, to professors has increased something like four or five fold, and b) schools feel the need to "sell" themselves to prospective students by building cushier residence halls, better dining halls, and amenities that weren't available at your typical college in the 60's and 70's. And housing and rental costs in places where people actually want to live are obscene.
What bothers me about posts like your is that all of this stuff you complain about affects loads of boomers. Yes, if you're 60 and have a house in a desirable city that's paid off you can be in great shape. But many of that age still don't have their houses paid off or have little in retirement savings because paying the house off cost so much. Some lost their jobs when the economy changed and had to work for much less money than in their previous job or they live in Rust Belt cities where the bottom fell out of property values as population dropped, or they took out second mortgages to put their kids through college.
American workers as a group have been getting the shaft for half a century but yes, some of them have done very well, as is also true for millenials. I know people well into their seventies who cannot afford to retire and may never be able to even as their health is seriously declining. They, like your example of people riding Harleys and living in gated communities are extremes. I don't blame people like you for being cheesed off at the hands many of you have been dealt but if you think life was a breeze for previous generations you need to broaden your horizons.
Maybe something triggered this "anti-work" movement, like, i don't know, working 40+ hours a week and still not being able to afford the most basic necessities?? The minimum wage is pathetic - and some states are way worse than others. Some states are still in the $7 range, and instead of using the "they should find another job" rebuttal, ask yourself why you think some people deserve that little...because someone has to work that job. Maybe there'd be more of a motive to work if people were paid adequately and could have some sort of work/life balance that doesn't make them want to downward spiral.
And miss me with the "where will we get the money???" As if asking for $15/hr instead of $8/hr will put any dent in that military budget we never have a problem funding....or the billionaires that watch their profits SOAR as we celebrate a $2 wage increase once every 10 years.
The real issue is our pseudo-capitalist system. The stock market is what enables the greed. If a company has great profits in 2021, it has to beat that in 2022. Our entire "economy" suggests growth should continue forever. So everything is tilted against the workers. Do more, make less, buy more. How else can you prop up the economy and its gains? CONSUME! Social media / influencers...why do they exist? To convince people to CONSUME. Spend your money. Put it on that 24.99% APR credit card.
If rent is $2500 on that one bedroom apartment, why not increase it to $2550 next year since the employee probably got a 3% raise, I can grab 2% of that (simplification).
Well the chicken will come home to roost eventually. I lurk in that antiwork subreddit because I think it's important to see other viewpoints. No doubt there are a lot of lazy people there, but there are some kernels of truth as well.
And please, no one wants to hear how you "worked so hard" to get where you are at, when it has been demonstrated time and again that most people benefit from their place in society at birth and the environment in which they are raised, which you have no control over. There is a startling difference in public education depending on the neighborhood you live in. So you see, some start off worse right from the beginning. Many that are perhaps smarter and harder working than you never get the same opportunities.
I can't believe what I'm seeing. I don't even recognize a few of my close friends anymore.
The anti-work movement is completely fictional. If you actually look at data prime-age employment is almost at an all time high (the all time-high was just before the pandemic) and people are currently working more hours than they were pre-covid. Weirdos on the internet don't always reflect the average person.
I can't believe what I'm seeing. I don't even recognize a few of my close friends anymore.
Define the "anti-work movement." We have an unemployment rate of 3.6% right now. That is BELOW what is commonly considered full employment of 5%. I'm actually surprised that 96.4% of people looking for work can actually get hired.
If you have friends who are physically and mentally able to get a job and they don't, then HOW are they doing that? Only options I see:
1) Independently wealthy. If so, then more power to them. They can do with that wealth what they want.
2) Freeloaders. Someone is enabling them. Bad enablers, bad!
3) Homeless. Well, that's not good and throws up the possibility that they are not mentally able to get a job.
4) Criminals. There have been cases where people have lived in the woods or in a tent or whatever and stole what they needed for years.
Contrary to popular current opinion, people don't just decide to not work just because they don't want to. They either have funds you don't know about or they are freeloaders or homeless or criminals.
5) Taking care of senior family members who require full time care as Covid has decimated Canada's Long Term Care facilities.
Anything that shakes up the UK jobs market (such as anti work, labor shortage or brexit) are a good thing. Employers have been using cheap foreign labour for too long and employer demands and competition for "better" jobs are out of line. There are many high quality graduates who can't or couldn't get a good job (i.e. not minimum wage). I was one of them, I graduated with a first in physics and a masters in nuclear science and I faced rejection from every graduate jobs I applied for. I did a lot of temp work such as exam marking, which only accepted graduates. There were 200 of us sat in a large room marking exams on the computers - we weren't allowed to talk, we weren't even allowed toilet breaks unless the manager said so. This is the kind of stuff employers have been getting away with (the company was Pearson btw). Even though it was "graduate" work the job paid minimum wage. I've applied for things like the Sellafield graduate programme (a nuclear site) and I was rejected after a few rounds without ever getting to speak to a recruiter or member of staff - and I was someone with a masters in nuclear physics who was tailor made for the role.
Its basically a collection of losers complaining about work, their employers, and their pursuit of better wages/benefits while accomplishing as little work as possible.
They can't organize themselves into anything cohesive because no idea that comes out of their echo chamber is woke enough.
One of their moderators went on Fox News and got completely wrecked. Fox didnt even ask any questions but the person revealed themselves as a transexual with a philosophy degree, who is also a dog walker by profession. Also said "laziness is a virtue" during the interview. These are the people of the movement. Not hyperbole at all, this is real.
The fact that people like that can even exist without starving to death or being massacred by pillagers just goes to show how amazing modern society has become. The problem is them and their bitterness and ingratitude. Now if the government could stop pumping out more money from the Fed and stop giving out so many student loans, maybe she!t wouldn't cost so much.
It's amazing the none of you know anything about the movement, but are free to comment like experts.
It is better known as the FIRE movement. OP doesn't recognize some of his close friends because they are getting ready to retire, or already retired. He is horrified because he is nowhere close to retirement.
I can't believe what I'm seeing. I don't even recognize a few of my close friends anymore.
The anti-work movement is completely fictional. If you actually look at data prime-age employment is almost at an all time high (the all time-high was just before the pandemic) and people are currently working more hours than they were pre-covid. Weirdos on the internet don't always reflect the average person.
Actually, the '"anti-work" movement isn't really about not-working. They are pretty clear on that. I see it as something different. They don't mind working in a fair and honest way. Many employers aren't fair or honest. In fact they are downright abusive. Employers, when they had a lot more power, would abuse employees with regularity, violate laws on heath safety and wages - in the hopes that no one would complain. take advantage of employers or try to mislead them or claim they are something they aren't.
Now people call them out and complain and they are labeled as "weirdos on the internet." The bad employers are bad for everyone. I wouldn't want to work for some of these exploiters.
The anti-work movement is completely fictional. If you actually look at data prime-age employment is almost at an all time high (the all time-high was just before the pandemic) and people are currently working more hours than they were pre-covid. Weirdos on the internet don't always reflect the average person.
Actually, the '"anti-work" movement isn't really about not-working. They are pretty clear on that. I see it as something different. They don't mind working in a fair and honest way. Many employers aren't fair or honest. In fact they are downright abusive. Employers, when they had a lot more power, would abuse employees with regularity, violate laws on heath safety and wages - in the hopes that no one would complain. take advantage of employers or try to mislead them or claim they are something they aren't.
Now people call them out and complain and they are labeled as "weirdos on the internet." The bad employers are bad for everyone. I wouldn't want to work for some of these exploiters.
That's true. But I'm just responding to OP's insinuation that there is an "anti-work movement" wherein people simply refuse to do anything.
If rent is $2500 on that one bedroom apartment, why not increase it to $2550 next year since the employee probably got a 3% raise, I can grab 2% of that (simplification).
This is why you think rent goes up in most cases? Not because maybe taxes, insurance, maintenance/repair costs increase? Ignorance is bliss.
Maybe something triggered this "anti-work" movement, like, i don't know, working 40+ hours a week and still not being able to afford the most basic necessities?? The minimum wage is pathetic - and some states are way worse than others. Some states are still in the $7 range, and instead of using the "they should find another job" rebuttal, ask yourself why you think some people deserve that little...because someone has to work that job. Maybe there'd be more of a motive to work if people were paid adequately and could have some sort of work/life balance that doesn't make them want to downward spiral.
And miss me with the "where will we get the money???" As if asking for $15/hr instead of $8/hr will put any dent in that military budget we never have a problem funding....or the billionaires that watch their profits SOAR as we celebrate a $2 wage increase once every 10 years.
Some jobs are meant to be transition jobs and are not supposed to pay a "living" wage. I hire people all the time and am appalled by the lack of credentials a lot of people have. It isn't that hard to spend a little time to get some sort of credential that could land a job above minimum wage. Get skills and you will get paid!
The number one budget expenditures for the US are SS, medicade/medicare (all social programs) and then the military.
I can't believe what I'm seeing. I don't even recognize a few of my close friends anymore.
Define the "anti-work movement." We have an unemployment rate of 3.6% right now. That is BELOW what is commonly considered full employment of 5%. I'm actually surprised that 96.4% of people looking for work can actually get hired.
If you have friends who are physically and mentally able to get a job and they don't, then HOW are they doing that? Only options I see:
1) Independently wealthy. If so, then more power to them. They can do with that wealth what they want.
2) Freeloaders. Someone is enabling them. Bad enablers, bad!
3) Homeless. Well, that's not good and throws up the possibility that they are not mentally able to get a job.
4) Criminals. There have been cases where people have lived in the woods or in a tent or whatever and stole what they needed for years.
Contrary to popular current opinion, people don't just decide to not work just because they don't want to. They either have funds you don't know about or they are freeloaders or homeless or criminals.
Dont work because they don't want to yet are criminals and freeloaders! Really? Employment numbers only count those seeking work and therefore are not accurate.
Its basically a collection of losers complaining about work, their employers, and their pursuit of better wages/benefits while accomplishing as little work as possible.
They can't organize themselves into anything cohesive because no idea that comes out of their echo chamber is woke enough.
One of their moderators went on Fox News and got completely wrecked. Fox didnt even ask any questions but the person revealed themselves as a transexual with a philosophy degree, who is also a dog walker by profession. Also said "laziness is a virtue" during the interview. These are the people of the movement. Not hyperbole at all, this is real.
This honestly is a pretty spot on description of that group. lol. I joined it a while ago because some of the posts were recommended and I found some of them about bad managers etc to be amusing and thought it was just a sub reddit for complaining about crappy employers. I had no idea the group was supposedly a bunch of marxist idealists that want to end work or something like that. Honestly most of the people there are either there for the amusement of people sharing how terrible some managers are and the other half is lazy and want nice stuff without having to work for it. The group does not seem to have any level of organization for this "movement" to actually go anywhere.
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