I didn't provide the example of Kiprop, but the degrading performance trend from 2015 to 2017 is pretty significant for someone who was "suspicious" in Feb. 2016, and busted in Nov. 2017.
He looks like a counter-example, and not an example.
I see it is "opportunity cost" -- he lost sight of doing what he needed to do in training.
Kiprop "looks like a counter-example" of the benefits of doping? So you are saying doping hinders performance. You must tell WADA. Their efforts are unnecessary.
Once again, to understand what I am saying, it is only necessary to read my posts, rather than rewriting them with your own illusions.
What I am saying is that the known facts from your example doesn't show the cause and effect relation that you want me to believe. The timeline is all wrong, and there are still too many gaps in the facts, that you fill with a faith I do not share.
WADA cannot help you fill in these gaps with facts, as they do not have them either.
WADA makes some things easy for itself, and doesn't really concern itself with elite performance. 1 of 3 guidelines to ban a substance is a weakly stated "potential to enhance performance". This performance related guideline is not mandatory, and WADA does not require itself to show that even the potential for enhancement exists, nor does it explain why a committee decides a substance is put on the banned list. Even if it were proven beyond all doubt that EPO cannot make one perform supernaturally, WADA can still ban EPO on the grounds of health + spirit.
But we know doping doesn't work on distance runners. Rekrunner tells us that again and again.
On the contrary, I tell you again and again that "we don't know" and any such statements are faith-based.
When you look at the timing, Kiprop doesn't seem to be the best example to support these faith based assertions.
Assuming Kiprop's Nov. 2017 test result was a true positive, what we know is that Kiprop got a few seconds slower in 2016 and again a few more seconds slower in 2017. It would seem that, if anything, doping worked to make him slower.
On the contrary, I tell you again and again that "we don't know" and any such statements are faith-based.
When you look at the timing, Kiprop doesn't seem to be the best example to support these faith based assertions.
Assuming Kiprop's Nov. 2017 test result was a true positive, what we know is that Kiprop got a few seconds slower in 2016 and again a few more seconds slower in 2017. It would seem that, if anything, doping worked to make him slower.
Oh wow. I hope you are a troll.
I'm often accused of it, but you can rest assured that I am not.
Kiprop "looks like a counter-example" of the benefits of doping? So you are saying doping hinders performance. You must tell WADA. Their efforts are unnecessary.
Once again, to understand what I am saying, it is only necessary to read my posts, rather than rewriting them with your own illusions.
What I am saying is that the known facts from your example doesn't show the cause and effect relation that you want me to believe. The timeline is all wrong, and there are still too many gaps in the facts, that you fill with a faith I do not share.
WADA cannot help you fill in these gaps with facts, as they do not have them either.
WADA makes some things easy for itself, and doesn't really concern itself with elite performance. 1 of 3 guidelines to ban a substance is a weakly stated "potential to enhance performance". This performance related guideline is not mandatory, and WADA does not require itself to show that even the potential for enhancement exists, nor does it explain why a committee decides a substance is put on the banned list. Even if it were proven beyond all doubt that EPO cannot make one perform supernaturally, WADA can still ban EPO on the grounds of health + spirit.
WADA cannot help you succeed where you fail.
Amidst all those words I gave yet to read anything that indicates you think that doping would have aided Kiprop. In that case, the reasonable inference (as I said) is that you don't think doping is effective for distance runners. In that you clearly differ with every expert - including WADA - and of course every distance runner who has doped.
Kenya now has the strictest testing regime in the world, Coevett. Not the US, not the UK, not Ethiopia, but Kenya. Kiprop got busted when he was already ebbing out and could no longer legitimately make a Kenyan team.
The "strictest testing regime in the world"? How so? Do they test more often than other countries? Do they test more often out of competition? If they test more is it because they have more dopers? That I can believe. Perhaps you might want to substantiate your claim.
They not only test more than other countries, but we've seen examples of innocent up-and-comers denied places on the national team for not being in the pool. Anybody who competes for Kenya is automatically been through a stricter regime than any westerners.
But we know doping doesn't work on distance runners. Rekrunner tells us that again and again.
On the contrary, I tell you again and again that "we don't know" and any such statements are faith-based.
When you look at the timing, Kiprop doesn't seem to be the best example to support these faith based assertions.
Assuming Kiprop's Nov. 2017 test result was a true positive, what we know is that Kiprop got a few seconds slower in 2016 and again a few more seconds slower in 2017. It would seem that, if anything, doping worked to make him slower.
Nobody wins gold then starts doping.
He was always doping and age group cheating is the reason he started performing badly when supposedly still in his prime.
The "strictest testing regime in the world"? How so? Do they test more often than other countries? Do they test more often out of competition? If they test more is it because they have more dopers? That I can believe. Perhaps you might want to substantiate your claim.
They not only test more than other countries, but we've seen examples of innocent up-and-comers denied places on the national team for not being in the pool. Anybody who competes for Kenya is automatically been through a stricter regime than any westerners.
Not so strict when it comes to accepting bribes (as Kiprop himself admitted) and informing athletes they are going to be tested in advance.
Amidst all those words I gave yet to read anything that indicates you think that doping would have aided Kiprop. In that case, the reasonable inference (as I said) is that you don't think doping is effective for distance runners. In that you clearly differ with every expert - including WADA - and of course every distance runner who has doped.
I don't make the claims that you do.
If you want to extrapolate general inferences from specific facts, that's kind of on you.
Remind me again, which WADA expert disagrees that Kiprop slowed down in 2016 and again in 2017?
On the contrary, I tell you again and again that "we don't know" and any such statements are faith-based.
When you look at the timing, Kiprop doesn't seem to be the best example to support these faith based assertions.
Assuming Kiprop's Nov. 2017 test result was a true positive, what we know is that Kiprop got a few seconds slower in 2016 and again a few more seconds slower in 2017. It would seem that, if anything, doping worked to make him slower.
Nobody wins gold then starts doping.
He was always doping and age group cheating is the reason he started performing badly when supposedly still in his prime.
He was always doping and age group cheating is the reason he started performing badly when supposedly still in his prime.
Thank you for your faith-based statements.
Everyone's statements in this discussion are faith based. Yours are based in faith in the testing process and the integrity of the people running it. The other side is based on a lack of faith in the efficacy of those things.
Everyone's statements in this discussion are faith based. Yours are based in faith in the testing process and the integrity of the people running it. The other side is based on a lack of faith in the efficacy of those things.
That's really the whole point, and it is not limited to discussion in this thread.
The Asbel Kiprop running 10 km in 29'10" in Mumias is not the same Asbel Kiprop winning 1500 in WCh four times and Olympics in 2008. This is another athlete, born in 1998, who had an experience in South Africa in the month of November 2021, finishing in 7th position in a race in Cape Town (12 km in 35'15").
On the contrary, I tell you again and again that "we don't know" and any such statements are faith-based.
When you look at the timing, Kiprop doesn't seem to be the best example to support these faith based assertions.
Assuming Kiprop's Nov. 2017 test result was a true positive, what we know is that Kiprop got a few seconds slower in 2016 and again a few more seconds slower in 2017. It would seem that, if anything, doping worked to make him slower.
Nobody wins gold then starts doping.
He was always doping and age group cheating is the reason he started performing badly when supposedly still in his prime.
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