HWBTWTDWH Training Log

Good luck, keep me updated! Do you mind giving me a sample week of your training to see where I'm going wrong? Thanks.

1. Yeah, I'm starting to doubt myself and if I'll ever be able to run fast. I'm going to need to reevaluate why I'm doing this and look over my training again.

2. Can you explain why I should do this? I don't think I can so easily "just trust you on this one" because this is the complete opposite of everything I've been told all along.

You're not working hard at all. You just ran 25 miles last week slower than 9 minute pace.

Follow this schedule and it'll help you just build general fitness. I don't know how fast you are for a 400, 800, or mile, but it shouldn't matter. Especially at your level, just running more will let you improve (and after you're comfortable with this, add more mileage by lengthening the runs and/or adding another double).

Monday: aerobic run. 5 miles with 6x50 strides at the end.

Tuesday: tempo intervals. beginning with 4x800 @ 7:30 pace, but get to something like 6x1200 @ 7:00 pace (running more will bring these times down and you'll feel more comfortable).

Wednesday: recovery doubles. 2-3 miles easy in the morning, 5 miles on the slow side of aerobic in the afternoon.

Thursday: aerobic run. 5-6 miles with 4x100 strides

Friday: relaxed speed. if you can run a 21:56 5k and aren't aerobically developed, you're probably around the low 6 minute range for a mile. run 8x200 at 44-45 (a tiny bit faster than mile pace) with walking rest (walk across the track).

Saturday: recovery. 2-3 miles easy in the morning, 4 slow miles in the afternoon.

Sunday: long run. 7 miles is a good start.

Seriously, at your level just running more will cause you to improve the most. That's why I added doubles to this: you just need to build aerobic fitness. Then, when you do that, hopefully these easy paces will be able to drop to around 8:00-8:30

Thank you so much for the help. I really appreciate this. I'm going to trust you here and will try to follow this starting next week. Unfortunately, I can only double on Saturdays and Sundays. A few quick questions

1) When you say "aerobic run," does that just mean easy pace or is it more moderate?

2) What kind of rest/recovery should I be doing between the tempo intervals? (I also can only get to the track on weekends so I might do 0.50 mi or 0.75 mi on the road instead)

3) What kind of perceived effort should the tempos be at? Comfortably hard? Relaxed? People have been suggesting to do harder tempos on this thread.

4) How long should the walking rest be? Just 200 meters? Also, would jogging this rest be fine as well?

5) Should I be doing the strides on grass? It's more convenient (where I live and end my runs) to be doing them on the sidewalk, and it is approximately 100m from my house to the end of the block.

To kind of put this into a schedule, I edited your original post:

Monday: 5-6 mile easy-moderate run (based on how you feel) + 4x100m strides at the end
Tuesday: 4x0.50mi @ 7:30 pace (relaxed) + 400m recovery jog after each -> get to something like 6x0.75mi @ 7:00 pace (relaxed) + 400m recovery jog after each
Wednesday: 6 mile slow recovery run
Thursday: 5 mile easy-moderate run (based on how you feel) + 4x100m strides at the end
Friday: 8x200m (relaxed) @ 45 + 200m recovery jog after each + 2.5 mile slow cooldown
Saturday: 2-3 miles easy in the morning, 4 slow miles in the afternoon
Sunday: 2 miles easy in the morning, 7 mile long run (easy-moderate) in the afternoon

This would get me to about 35-40 mpw. I can slowly increase the duration of easy runs and long runs. I can also increase the tempo intervals' length/pace and the relaxed speed intervals' pace. Again, thank you so much for the detailed post.

I'm not the original reply, but I agree with him most out of anyone. The thing that really matters is time at a given effort, so I think the idea of mileage is one adapted for those with a base level of fitness. When we talk about 8 miles, we mean running for an hourish. For you, that might mean an hour twenty. That's a pretty big difference, and might be the difference between a beneficial run and the burnout you fear.

A typical "low mileage" program might say to run 4-5 miles a day, operating on the assumption that they will be done in 40ish mins. As such, it might be prudent to try for something like that amount of time instead.

In regard to the tempos, the line between tempo and regular running is somewhat blurred at that speed. For example, your recent tempo was at 8:24, and your two mile recovery shakeout the next day was at 8:33. That's a hint that the base level of fitness to actually run a true tempo isn't there, so trying for a tempo won't be super beneficial. I'm in agreement with the FutureOldHead that running significantly faster, shorter reps will help a lot. This isn't to say that your tempos are really bad, you'll still get some benefit, just not as much as you may think.

I think you have some cool goals, and I'll be following to see how you get on!

Thank you, I appreciate the advice! I'm planning on doing two workouts per week, so apart from the faster, shorter intervals, what should my other workout be?

Week 4: 3/14/22 - 3/20/22
Mon, 3/14: DNR
Tues, 3/15: DNR
Wed, 3/16: DNR
Thurs, 3/17: DNR
Fri, 3/18: DNR
Sat, 3/19: DNR
Sun, 3/20: DNR

Total: 0.0 mi

I'm really not sure what happened this week. I just felt like complete crap every single day. I was on vacation and didn't feel like running on the hotel treadmill. I didn't even feel like running at all. It was just terrible. Technically, I could've only run on four of these days because of travelling, but this was still ridiculous. I think this was something mentally that I need to figure out how to push through. I know I sound like I'm making excuses, but this week, my mind was not where it needed to be. I was really lazy and relaxed the entire week. Hopefully, next week will go better. I need to focus up if I want to improve. Does anyone have any tips for mental toughness in training?

Going to go for 40 miles next week. No less (I hope).

the title of your post is "hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard", and you didn't run at all this week.
i know running on a treadmill is boring, but getting in 3 or 4 miles on those days would make you better.

Hate to say it md006 but you come off as a bit of a soft c**k, maybe go to your local supermarket and purchase some harden up pills.

You remind of myself a bit. Minus the posting of my asperations on a global running community website.

My freshman year I started the season at 24:xx and finished at 20:30. My sophomore year I ran 17:30.

What was the secret? I went to practice everyday in the summer before my sophomore year whereas I went zero times before my freshman year. I also had a decent, for me, track season. I think I ran the mile in 5:0something.

What's your mile time? I would encourage you to just show up at practice and do your best. Not worry what a bunch of 30-40 guys think about your training.

I have been running and/or coaching for the past 30 years. There are just some athletes that can not train all summer and still be half way decent at cross country because of either talent or fitness gained from other sports/activities. I was probably one of those athletes myself. I would not run all summer, but would play sports, ride bikes, and be generally active, but could run 15:40-16:30 on a given day. When I went to run in college I started training in the summer and could run 24:50-25:30 in the 8k on a given day, but I was also a 3:46 1500m runner.

What you need to work on is becoming a better athlete. During my 20 years of being around division I athletes, the pattern that I notice the most is that 95% of the time the best athletes on our team are the best runners. They can sprint the fastest, jump the highest and lift the most weights. You should focus on the following things.

Add sprints & strides to your weekly routine. 2 days of this will help you increase your efficiency. 6-8 x 80-100m grass strides after easy runs workout well. You can also add 60-80m hill sprints to the end of runs and workouts. 4 x 200m at mile pace are great to add after tempo and interval workouts. You can also add fartlek pickups into the middle of easy runs and long runs. 6-8 x 30-60'' pickups with equal or double rest are great ways to work on changing paces, clearing lactate and adding variety into runs.

You should add in general strength workouts of push-ups, pull-ups, dips, lunges, squats (single and double leg), planks, hip bridges, etc. 2 x 12 exercises of 30 seconds on with 15 seconds off will help increase your general fitness while also helping reduce injuries. You can do these 2-3 times a week instead of morning runs or add them after runs or workouts.

Here is what your Jack Daniels training paces should look like given your current 5k pr.

Easy - 8:50, Marathon - 7:50, Tempo - 7:27, Interval - 6:51, Repetition - 6:27

This is what your goals paces are:

Easy - 7:50, Marathon - 6:55, Tempo - 6:30, Interval - 6:00, Repetition - 5:36

You need to be running workouts that work on your current fitness, but also help you reach your goal race pace. This is where the strides and sprints come into play. You can run these at your goal repetition pace to help set up the speed needed later in time. While running workouts at your current fitness.

My last suggestion is to pick up another sport. My best athletes throughout the year played other sports growing up. Soccer, basketball, swimming ect. Even if you just playing rec. league would be helpful.

Just so you know, I work at a small underfunded university and have coached the following times: 800m - 1:47, 1500 - 3:47, 3000 - 8:23, 5000 - 14:25

Remember that troll thread a few years ago where the guy posted his logs, allegedly training to qualify for the Olympic Trials in the steeplechase? I'm getting a similar vibe from this one.

I'm not trying to make the Trials lol. Don't worry, I am not trolling.

Yeah, I've realized that I'm not working hard at all. It only seems like that to me because I never trained in the offseason before.

I'm starting to agree with you, I need to focus up.

My mile time is 6-6:30 (haven't timed it in a long time). Thanks for the feedback.

Thank you for the detailed reply.

You have this uncanny blend of self-awareness and lack of self-awareness that screams troll.

I'm not trolling. I can kind of see why you think I am, but I'm not. Is there any way I can prove this to you without giving away too much personal information?