while they wouldn't be the best in the nation, they'd still be considered national class.
Aschbrenner, Appleford, Martinez, Doshi, Sam Macdonnel, Goldstein, etc are all just too much to ignore. Especially considering they all flourished over such a short time period, with Brosnan being quite a young coach.
I do see what you mean with much of the impressiveness of their top 4 being slightly misleading because half of their top 4 is practically a clone of the other half, but even if there was only one Young twin and one Sahlman brother they'd still be the best in the nation.
Heck, take out all the Sahlmans and Youngs and they still have 9:05, 9:09, 9:11 and 9:23 yesterday. Looks like one guy of 8 had an off day in February. I probably missed someone, too. Solid.
The thing is, if you take out all the Youngs and Sahlmans, especially Nico, this program never takes off like it has. Sub-14 and sub-9 aren't normalized and those 4 kids running 9:05-9:23 undoubtedly don't run that fast.
This program was built on the back of Nico Young. I don't say that in some sort of derogatory way to take away from Brosnan either. Been in a similar position and really can't overemphasize how much having a blue chip talent can launch a program.
To break Webb’s mile record it’ll take a 3:49, and Lucas’s 2 mile record will take a 8:20 effort in super shoes.
Are you going to be the one to determine what is acceptable technology? What about the runners in the 1950s, running in clodhoppers. Don't they have a gripe about the better shoes of the 60s? And what about Jim Ryun. Shouldn't he question runners who had the benefit of the technology of the 80s, 90s and beyond? Better yet, let's use Abebe Bikila as the standard. He won the 1960 Rome Olympics marathon barefoot. To break any record you must be running barefoot.
Heck, take out all the Sahlmans and Youngs and they still have 9:05, 9:09, 9:11 and 9:23 yesterday. Looks like one guy of 8 had an off day in February. I probably missed someone, too. Solid.
The thing is, if you take out all the Youngs and Sahlmans, especially Nico, this program never takes off like it has. Sub-14 and sub-9 aren't normalized and those 4 kids running 9:05-9:23 undoubtedly don't run that fast.
This program was built on the back of Nico Young. I don't say that in some sort of derogatory way to take away from Brosnan either. Been in a similar position and really can't overemphasize how much having a blue chip talent can launch a program.
I’ll bite. The shoe tech prior to this has incremental improvement based around come as close to barefoot as possible. Runners today are relying on a spring-like device in the shoe. I think there is an overwhelming consensus that this more than just a lighter pair spikes. Are you arguing that there is no threshold, and that folks could run in mechanically propelled shoes? I think this sudden step forward has caused a lot of folks to reevaluate the relationship between human effort and machine assistance.
They had 6 guys on their team 9:10 or faster in this one race.
Dev Doshi, on their team, ran 9:09 and he's only a sophomore. They could potentially have 5 guys go sub 9 next year (Young brothers, Doshi, Hector Martinez, and Little Sahlman).
Jury's still out on Cantu who returns next year. His performances have been great by any normal kid's standards but has been underperforming by NP's standards (injuries?). If he can get his act together for next year they'll have 6 studs ready to rip it.
I do think next year is their last great year though and NP should return to earth after that.
They had 6 guys on their team 9:10 or faster in this one race.
Dev Doshi, on their team, ran 9:09 and he's only a sophomore. They could potentially have 5 guys go sub 9 next year (Young brothers, Doshi, Hector Martinez, and Little Sahlman).
Jury's still out on Cantu who returns next year. His performances have been great by any normal kid's standards but has been underperforming by NP's standards (injuries?). If he can get his act together for next year they'll have 6 studs ready to rip it.
I do think next year is their last great year though and NP should return to earth after that.
Like any program NP will go through ups and downs depending on the talent coming in. No doubt this season has been a perfect storm, one that we may not see again for a long time. That said, NP has things going for it that will enable them to consistently be good though not always great. The area has long established youth track clubs. That's a big deal, because it means every year kids who already love running will be coming into the school. Of course in certain years maybe the talent level is not as good as in other years, but as long as Brosnan remains there they'll always be in the mix.
Have you even worn the new spikes? They feel like a marginal improvement, definitely more comfortable but not a "spring-like device". The road shoes are a different story, so much different than the pre Vaporfly era.
It won't get anyone on his team to national record pace.
Two lads played with fire at 4:18 and paid somewhat for committing to that pace.
Another crack under 4:20 and they're closer to the 8:32-35 range.
Just wondering, do you think Jakob is actually slower than he was a couple years ago? He ran 3:30 without super spikes, and now he's running 3:28. Is he really only in 3:32 shape without them? Same for Stewy McSweyn and Jake Wightman. 3:31 guys before super spikes and are now 3:29 guys. Are they actually 3:33 guys in regular spikes now? And is Cheruiyot now the slowest he's been in years? Is he really a 3:32 guy, even though he's run faster than 3:32 every year since 2015? Or maybe it's not crazy to think that the Olympic champion and silver medalist are actually 3:28 guys?
So either you think that the best in the world are all much slower than they used to be, or you think that they don't really make the best in the world faster, in which case I'd love to hear the explanation of how it makes everyone faster except pros.
To take it a step further, I would LOVE to see their top 4 face off in a 2x2xmile relay, just like the mixed gender 2x2x400m at world relays. It's always so exciting and would be a great hard workout for them. Sahlmans versus Youngs would be electric #goodforthesport
The US High School 10K Record needs to go down!!! Sahlman and Young Bros should train specifically to get it! 28:32 from 1976 is now within reach. 46 years - Come On Guys!!!!
The PR contriving is really bizarre, if that is true.
That's the best you can say for a coach who has trained runners to 3:58/8:33, 7:56.97, 7:57, and 8:39. This is the program we have been waiting for on this site for twenty years! This is how you bring a resurgence of the United States to co-equal status with Kenya and Ethiopia, by raising expectations to the level of the world's top junior runners. You should be out on the rooftops shouting about this.
while they wouldn't be the best in the nation, they'd still be considered national class.
Aschbrenner, Appleford, Martinez, Doshi, Sam Macdonnel, Goldstein, etc are all just too much to ignore. Especially considering they all flourished over such a short time period, with Brosnan being quite a young coach.
I do see what you mean with much of the impressiveness of their top 4 being slightly misleading because half of their top 4 is practically a clone of the other half, but even if there was only one Young twin and one Sahlman brother they'd still be the best in the nation.
Heck, take out all the Sahlmans and Youngs and they still have 9:05, 9:09, 9:11 and 9:23 yesterday. Looks like one guy of 8 had an off day in February. I probably missed someone, too. Solid.
I was very pleased with Cantù’s 9:23 last night. He may be over his injury and may start to catch up to Doshi and Martinez.
NBP is so powerful that if you take away the Young’s and Sahlman’s we would be talking about Appleford, Doshi, and Martinez challenging the Chapa lead Hammond HS for having three guys under 9 for 3200/2-mile. Yet they’re the 5,6 and 7 on this team. Just wow!
The 4 × mile at New Balance nationals at the Armory next month will be very tasty. The h.s. record is 17:01. I expect the NP 4 to run at least between 16:20 and 16:30.
Whatever criticisms are leveled against Brosnan the fact that he's producing more good runners than just the obvious NP 4 shows that he's building a good program. How long he stays there remains to be seen.
I have zero criticism against Brosnan. The reality is, he's got A LOT of really talented young runners that grew up in his school zone. You aren't running 9:05 off just coaching, not happening. He's done a great job with them, but they aren't 10 minute flat 3200 meter runners that he got down to sub 9 in 2 or 3 years. The talent is out of this world, period.
The 4 × mile at New Balance nationals at the Armory next month will be very tasty. The h.s. record is 17:01. I expect the NP 4 to run at least between 16:20 and 16:30.
It is really hard to get 4 guys to time trial their PRs so I expect more like a 1635(bunch of 4:05-7 and a 415) but we are still talking about a crazy improvement. Even the much harder 4x1600 record should get crushed.
They will not be time trialing. Why do you think their coach put them in this race? They will be lapping many, many teams and that will create lap to lap goals to pass someone for their 2, 3, and 4 runners. Possibly even their lead off after 1200 or so. This will be absolutely fun for those guys and smart move by Brosnan to get them in this race.
Whatever criticisms are leveled against Brosnan the fact that he's producing more good runners than just the obvious NP 4 shows that he's building a good program. How long he stays there remains to be seen.
I have zero criticism against Brosnan. The reality is, he's got A LOT of really talented young runners that grew up in his school zone. You aren't running 9:05 off just coaching, not happening. He's done a great job with them, but they aren't 10 minute flat 3200 meter runners that he got down to sub 9 in 2 or 3 years. The talent is out of this world, period.
In one interview I remember him talking about how there are potential 9-9:20 kids in every school. Problem is the vast majority never come out for track. Some of them could be found on the soccer team. I had a friend in high school who just messed around with different sports, but had no interest in being on a team or training. He had good natural speed but never seem to tire and had beautiful running form. The track coach pleaded with him to come out for the team, but to no avail. I can't guarantee that he would have been a 9:00 3200 runner, but there's no question that he had talent that was laying dormant. I mentioned elsewhere that there are several established running clubs in the NP area. Some of them feed other local high schools, like Camarillo h.s. But why go there when you can run at NPHS. IIRC, both the Sahlman and Young families live in Camarillo.
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.