The 2 days rest per week is interesting. What do y'all think about cramming a weeks mileage into 5 days, and then resting up for 2?
It is all about supercompensation!
The theory is that accumulated (over)load leads to accumulated supercompensation when you rest after the overload. You get a higher supercompensation. Like if you were at a training camp.
The 2 days rest per week is interesting. What do y'all think about cramming a weeks mileage into 5 days, and then resting up for 2?
It is all about supercompensation!
The theory is that accumulated (over)load leads to accumulated supercompensation when you rest after the overload. You get a higher supercompensation. Like if you were at a training camp.
Definitely not a training for everyone.
I was actually thinking about experimenting with 5+2 a week or so before I learned about this guy. Maybe the universe is trying to tell me something. When I read through portions of his training book, it kind of looked like he did it mainly for lifestyle, but certainly I see the physiological benefits, that being supercompensation you couldn't get from just one rest day or from 7 days work (with some easy days in there).
As a 38 year old hobby jogger, with no scientific background, please take this for what it is -- bro science -- but I think there might be something there. I started thinking about this idea after experiencing a few too many injuries in the past couple years. My thought is of course the body needs rest. Recovery is when the adaptations take place. For me, however, one day sometimes does not seem to be enough--both from a feeling rejuvenated perspective and from a niggle/injury healing perspective -- and perhaps an extra day is really needed for the recovery to soak in. I get the allure of 7 days training per week. I've done it for a number of years, but I think it wears on my body. After a hard long run on Saturday, I asked myself, is my body really getting anything out of a 5-6 mile slog on a Sunday? Maybe it gets the "blood flowing," whatever that means. It certainly isn't adding to any gains in running economy, and maybe only has a marginal effect on aerobic capacity (an effect probably not worth the tiredness). So maybe it makes sense to just rest or do some extra light biking for 20 minutes to get that "blood flowing" (again, this is all just my bro science speaking).
Now what I'm about to say probably contradicts what I said above re: the importance of rest, but if you do 5+2, does it make sense to do strength on one of the rest days? As endurance athletes, it feels like strength/muscle gains are always being eaten away by the endurance aspect, so would 2 full rest days help solidify gains with weights that would be "taken away" if you just lifted on running/endurance days and followed a 6 or 7 day schedule?
The 2 days rest per week is interesting. What do y'all think about cramming a weeks mileage into 5 days, and then resting up for 2?
It is all about supercompensation!
It's all about concentrated load. You should start from a smaller block and look for adaptation over time. 2on 1off >3on 1off> 4on 2off>5on 2off. It would also be better to try to improve one quality per period of time just like he did.
As an oldie, I take 3 days off before a race. This way I feel really fresh. 1 day is not enough, and 3 days is better than 2. I think the 5:2 could work, as long as the volume is maintained over the 5. Under-recovery is a big issue, and probably not paid enough attention to. If I'm not getting injured, I must be recovering, is not always correct.
I am also interested in applying his training to myself, but the thing is, you have to work so hard on those 5 days that you need the 2 days off and the only way to do that is to get so much volume. As a guy who regularly runs over 100 mpw and has experimented with 140+, shoving that into 5 days isn't all that hard. He's doing 30 hours of biking or says he'd do 25 of running.. that's like 160 miles in 5 days at 9 minute pace. Obviously people can handle different amounts, but unless you're really pushing your limits, you probably don't need a double rest day, however, a single rest day may be more beneficial than people think. This also doesn't apply to you older guys, as I'm 20, I have no experience with slower recovery yet. This summer I do want to attempt running up to 160 in 5 days just to see what it does, because I know from experience that jogging 140 with some sprints in there makes you recover FAST, you just don't have race specific stamina, which is why his huge base into very aerobically intense training really drives home to me. Anyways, ramble over.
The theory is that accumulated (over)load leads to accumulated supercompensation when you rest after the overload. You get a higher supercompensation. Like if you were at a training camp.
Definitely not a training for everyone.
I was actually thinking about experimenting with 5+2 a week or so before I learned about this guy. Maybe the universe is trying to tell me something. When I read through portions of his training book, it kind of looked like he did it mainly for lifestyle, but certainly I see the physiological benefits, that being supercompensation you couldn't get from just one rest day or from 7 days work (with some easy days in there).
As a 38 year old hobby jogger, with no scientific background, please take this for what it is -- bro science -- but I think there might be something there. I started thinking about this idea after experiencing a few too many injuries in the past couple years. My thought is of course the body needs rest. Recovery is when the adaptations take place. For me, however, one day sometimes does not seem to be enough--both from a feeling rejuvenated perspective and from a niggle/injury healing perspective -- and perhaps an extra day is really needed for the recovery to soak in. I get the allure of 7 days training per week. I've done it for a number of years, but I think it wears on my body. After a hard long run on Saturday, I asked myself, is my body really getting anything out of a 5-6 mile slog on a Sunday? Maybe it gets the "blood flowing," whatever that means. It certainly isn't adding to any gains in running economy, and maybe only has a marginal effect on aerobic capacity (an effect probably not worth the tiredness). So maybe it makes sense to just rest or do some extra light biking for 20 minutes to get that "blood flowing" (again, this is all just my bro science speaking).
Now what I'm about to say probably contradicts what I said above re: the importance of rest, but if you do 5+2, does it make sense to do strength on one of the rest days? As endurance athletes, it feels like strength/muscle gains are always being eaten away by the endurance aspect, so would 2 full rest days help solidify gains with weights that would be "taken away" if you just lifted on running/endurance days and followed a 6 or 7 day schedule?
Every 3 to 4 weeks, depending on how you plan your mesocycle you should have a down-week. A week with lower volume and also lower intensity. That week is required to settle the training stimulus accumulated the weeks before. Maybe you don't do that.
Blah blah blah … this guy is so far beyond you and anyone who posted on this thread. 96km / ~ 60 miles per week at what is basically 4000m race pace for normal humans. Imagine Cheptegei running 60 miles per week at WR 5000m pace. lol lol. This guy is a badazz .. he didn’t talk about it, he went out and did it for real.
Recently heard Nils mention on a Swedish podcast that he thinks he's the worlds slowest runner for the volume he runs. He runs about 90-120 miles a week with a PB of around 38m for 10km.
That seems incredibly slow. Perhaps because of the skater/cyclists muscles? And never being rested when he races a 10k?
The theory is that accumulated (over)load leads to accumulated supercompensation when you rest after the overload. You get a higher supercompensation. Like if you were at a training camp.
Definitely not a training for everyone.
I was actually thinking about experimenting with 5+2 a week or so before I learned about this guy. Maybe the universe is trying to tell me something. When I read through portions of his training book, it kind of looked like he did it mainly for lifestyle, but certainly I see the physiological benefits, that being supercompensation you couldn't get from just one rest day or from 7 days work (with some easy days in there).
As a 38 year old hobby jogger, with no scientific background, please take this for what it is -- bro science -- but I think there might be something there. I started thinking about this idea after experiencing a few too many injuries in the past couple years. My thought is of course the body needs rest. Recovery is when the adaptations take place. For me, however, one day sometimes does not seem to be enough--both from a feeling rejuvenated perspective and from a niggle/injury healing perspective -- and perhaps an extra day is really needed for the recovery to soak in. I get the allure of 7 days training per week. I've done it for a number of years, but I think it wears on my body. After a hard long run on Saturday, I asked myself, is my body really getting anything out of a 5-6 mile slog on a Sunday? Maybe it gets the "blood flowing," whatever that means. It certainly isn't adding to any gains in running economy, and maybe only has a marginal effect on aerobic capacity (an effect probably not worth the tiredness). So maybe it makes sense to just rest or do some extra light biking for 20 minutes to get that "blood flowing" (again, this is all just my bro science speaking).
Now what I'm about to say probably contradicts what I said above re: the importance of rest, but if you do 5+2, does it make sense to do strength on one of the rest days? As endurance athletes, it feels like strength/muscle gains are always being eaten away by the endurance aspect, so would 2 full rest days help solidify gains with weights that would be "taken away" if you just lifted on running/endurance days and followed a 6 or 7 day schedule?
I would have thought total rest is better for super-compensation. Or perhaps a very short 2 mile shakeout jog for those who like 7 days a week training on those days.
One is that huge amounts of low intensity (which is inefficient in terms of payback per time spent) can bring an athlete to a higher level and a really big aerobic base. Then the body might adapt better to again huge volumes of more intense training (threshold and then specific race pace).
The second is that evidence has shown that digging deeper (more volume of some intense stuff in a short time) matched with adequate recovery can give better long term adaptations than more distributed a model even when the volume over time is perfectly matched.
So the combo an extreme base and ability to adapt to higher doses of intense stuff, matched with the block model of 5:2, might lead to a higher level. Nevertheless, it is time-inefficient, meaning it is a LOT of training time giving the tiny competitive edge, but in top sports this is not issue really
The second is that evidence has shown that digging deeper (more volume of some intense stuff in a short time) matched with adequate recovery can give better long term adaptations than more distributed a model even when the volume over time is perfectly matched.
In running the trend has been the opposite. A guy like Peter Snell had very sharply divided training blocks. In his sharpening phse he could be on the track for 5 days/week.
Today, runners do track work year round - often quite intense. I recently spoke to Swedish 1990s 2,00 800m runner Maria Akraka. She did sessions like 20x200 in 28,5 year round. National steeple record holder Mustafa Mohamed does 25x400 in 63 in the base phase.
We have to see this in it's context.Nils does this phase program to execute at his top just for 1-2 races per year. The demands for a speed skater isn't the same as for a runner. You can't train on a bike for endurance build up and then expekt to run fast. But I think rest one day per week as the most Kenyans is a good advice.
Jon, there is no such evidence. Why? Because the studies have not been done over a very long time and not enough compared with the opposit to run same volyme year round and more effective endurance training . And further on most of these studies aren't done on elite runners and often just cyclists or amateur runners.
Blah blah blah … this guy is so far beyond you and anyone who posted on this thread. 96km / ~ 60 miles per week at what is basically 4000m race pace for normal humans. Imagine Cheptegei running 60 miles per week at WR 5000m pace. lol lol. This guy is a badazz .. he didn’t talk about it, he went out and did it for real.
The most he was doing was 120 minutes at race pace.
The most he was doing was 120 minutes per week at race pace.
You do know that 120 minutes is 2 hours of race pace ..?!
So if you are Cheptegei that’s ~ 30 miles at 5,000m race pace per week … if you’re a 15:00/5k athlete that’s ~ 25 miles at race pace… 20 minute athlete , that’s ~ 19 miles at pace. I might be out in left field but I’ll hold my line ..that’s a ton of work directly at targeted race intensity. Does that seem like a doable work load …even for an athlete of Cheptegei’s talent ?!
