Tempo runs not getting faster and I am tired of sucking

feefeefoofoo wrote:

Thank you for all of the responses ...

What's bothering me is that I've done the 3x2 miles with 2 mins rest at 6:00 pace and I can do 5xmile at 5:55 pace with 60 sec rest. But when I try to do 4-5 miles continuously, this slows down to 6:15 or 6:20 at the same effort.

My easy days fluctuate between 7:15 pace and 8:30 pace depending on how I'm feeling. I usually start at 8:30 pace and if I'm feeling good I work my way down.

I also feel like I'm better at short distances & long distances, but for some reason I suck at races between 5k and 10k. My mile time was around 4:50 last time I checked.

Basically, I keep doing these 3x2 mile, 5xmile, 4 mile tempo, etc workouts and it feels like literally nothing is happening. Do I need to focus more on 800s, 1k's and 1200m repeats at 5k pace instead?

You need to focus on general volume and endurance.

I did 6x1600 @03:18min/km with 2min jogging, quite easy, but 10k race @03:36 only (felt empty legs), and could hit JS classic workout 20x400 @02:50-02:55 with 1min stand rest... just my 50cents.... 2 years running experience only...

feefeefoofoo wrote:

Thank you for all of the responses ...

What's bothering me is that I've done the 3x2 miles with 2 mins rest at 6:00 pace and I can do 5xmile at 5:55 pace with 60 sec rest. But when I try to do 4-5 miles continuously, this slows down to 6:15 or 6:20 at the same effort.

My easy days fluctuate between 7:15 pace and 8:30 pace depending on how I'm feeling. I usually start at 8:30 pace and if I'm feeling good I work my way down.

I also feel like I'm better at short distances & long distances, but for some reason I suck at races between 5k and 10k. My mile time was around 4:50 last time I checked.

Basically, I keep doing these 3x2 mile, 5xmile, 4 mile tempo, etc workouts and it feels like literally nothing is happening. Do I need to focus more on 800s, 1k's and 1200m repeats at 5k pace instead?

This sounds very much like you need to work on vo2 max. Do a second workout each week, eg 4 × 1 mile at target 5k pace, 6 × 800, etc.

feefeefoofoo wrote:

For the past few years I've been stuck doing tempo runs between 6:10 and 6:20. I've been racing 5k's, 8k's, and half marathons. I've upped my mileage from 40 mpw to 65 mpw. I still can't run any faster and I feel like increasing my mileage is just wasting my time. What should I do? I want to eventually break 16:30 in the 5k and get to around 1:18 in the half marathon. Literally I just finished a 4 mile tempo in 6:15 average. Disappointed that it hasn't changed in 2 years. I want to tempo around 5:45. How do I get there???

PRs: 17:53 5k

8k: 29:44

Half Marathon: 1:20:42

What is your 1600m PR? I ask that because your other race times are quite balanced.

Slow everything down.

And then replace your tempo runs by 4 x 2ks / 4 x 1 mile / 6 x 1k at 5:55-6:00 min/mile pace.

Do that for a few weeks.

feefeefoofoo wrote:

Thank you for all of the responses ...

What's bothering me is that I've done the 3x2 miles with 2 mins rest at 6:00 pace and I can do 5xmile at 5:55 pace with 60 sec rest. But when I try to do 4-5 miles continuously, this slows down to 6:15 or 6:20 at the same effort.

My easy days fluctuate between 7:15 pace and 8:30 pace depending on how I'm feeling. I usually start at 8:30 pace and if I'm feeling good I work my way down.

I also feel like I'm better at short distances & long distances, but for some reason I suck at races between 5k and 10k. My mile time was around 4:50 last time I checked.

Basically, I keep doing these 3x2 mile, 5xmile, 4 mile tempo, etc workouts and it feels like literally nothing is happening. Do I need to focus more on 800s, 1k's and 1200m repeats at 5k pace instead?

Good additional info. Still not quite enough to know the whole picture. But I can just tell you what I would do if it were me.

Take a bit of a break. If your stagnating all around, just go easy for a couple of weeks. Then build the miles back up (maybe even higher). For a month or two (or more if you want), just focus on longer tempos (up to 10 miles around possible marathon pace give or take a few seconds), fartleks, strides, and hills. Slow your regular runs down a bit. If you're regularly hitting low 7's on those runs, that is too fast. I know because I've been there. Exactly there. Our PRs are just about identical. And I know the feeling of starting slow to recover and then you find yourself "easily" running low 7 pace and it's great. It's fun. It feels good and productive. But it's not.

After a reset like that, build your favorite workouts back in and pick some goal races for the spring and summer. I honestly think you will find that you get faster at almost everything.

Check your weight. you may be 10 lbs over your racing weight that you were when you ran 1:20:42

Wtf is this correct re point 1??

I didn't write it, but I can accept the premise.

Let's look at it this way. Say you have runner A who runs 65 miles a week consistently, but no workouts, no structure, just running how they feel.

Runner B has the exact same talent, but runs with the purpose of optimizing race times in mind. That means slow recovery runs, threshold runs at the right effort, intervals at targeted race pace.

I would fully expect runner B to win most races from mile to 10K.

talent evaluator wrote:

BuyTheDip wrote:

Wtf is this correct re point 1??

I didn't write it, but I can accept the premise.

Let's look at it this way. Say you have runner A who runs 65 miles a week consistently, but no workouts, no structure, just running how they feel.

Runner B has the exact same talent, but runs with the purpose of optimizing race times in mind. That means slow recovery runs, threshold runs at the right effort, intervals at targeted race pace.

I would fully expect runner B to win most races from mile to 10K.

Thank you for taking the time to expand, makes sense and is something I see at my running group/Strava quite often. Ta!

True but most runners should get faster bumping from 40 to 65 miles/week. It's not like OP is running 13-flat for 5k. You should be able to get a good bit faster on that mileage.

Agree with what was said about easy runs. It's easy to get carried away OP but finishing runs close to 7:00 probably means a heart rate over 150. Probably too much grey zone running. Slow those days down & see if you can roll a little quicker on tempo days.

4:50 also seems like a solid mile time. Dk what you did to get there but don't neglect the speed & VO2 work training for the longer stuff. You've got plenty of room to make improvements.

If you want to run 3 miles at 5:20 pace you need to train running at that pace and faster.

Running lots of 6:15 miles is not going to make you faster.

feefeefoofoo wrote:

Basically, I keep doing these 3x2 mile, 5xmile, 4 mile tempo, etc workouts and it feels like literally nothing is happening. Do I need to focus more on 800s, 1k's and 1200m repeats at 5k pace instead?

Yes, but also 600s, 400s and 200s at mile pace (+short hills).

Try this for 12 weeks and see what happens…

Tuesday: 4-6 x 1200m at marathon pace with 1 minute rest

Thursday: 12-20 x 300m at 5k pace with 30 second rest

Saturday: 5-10 x 10 seconds all out hill sprints with walk back slowly rest

Sunday: 70-90 minute out and back faster progression run

Run your 65 miles per week

Are you saying your not doing 5k pace work that often or not at all? Cause I can tell you personally when I am just doing threshold stuff I struggle to go much faster than that in a race. Even one intro 5k pace workout wakes my legs up and my 3k-5k time will really drop in just a week.