Prime Mo Farah vs. Mo Katir vs Jakob Ingebrigtsen vs Noah Ngeny vs Daniel Komen

objectiveobserver wrote:

surveysays wrote:

"He beat an injured guy and a chubby Scot. BFD."

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The "injured" guy and the chubby Scot both beat the former Olympic record by seconds. They were just unlucky that a Norwegian youngster was even faster.

A rabbit and new spike technology will do that.

Learn how to use the quote function.

new illegal wrote:

800: ngeny

1500: jakob

3000: komen

5000: mo (until jakob goes under 12:38)

10000: jakob

Lmao good one

surveysays wrote:

objectiveobserver wrote:

surveysays wrote:

"He beat an injured guy and a chubby Scot. BFD."

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The "injured" guy and the chubby Scot both beat the former Olympic record by seconds. They were just unlucky that a Norwegian youngster was even faster.

A rabbit and new spike technology will do that.

Learn how to use the quote function.

Yup. Yakob benefitted from the absolute best pacing possible which not even money can buy, and he also has the benefit of supershoes and superspikes. Of course that old slowass olympic record was going down.

And we've already seen how much of a difference it makes when Timothy is cognizant of Yakob freeloading off of him by sitting on his shoulder. When Timothy doesnt play the role of nice guy pacer, it not only makes things much closer, it can even change the outcome. (See: Diamond League final)

objective observer wrote:

"It is unfair to compare 20 years old Jakob and 23 years old Katir to Farah, Komen and Ngeny in their prime! It is as unfair as comparing 20 years old Hocker (and 17!? years old Jakob) to "2 time Olympian" Andrew Wheating.

And it gets even more unfair when many posters above speculate that Ngeny (3000m), Komen (10,000m) and especially Farah (3000m- 10,000m) could have run significantly faster than they actually did.

Helo! Farah raced numerous times on the 3000m, 5000m and 10,000m. It was his main distances for many, many years and he has never been close to the 3000m and 5000m times Jakob ran at 19 and 20 respectively.

Provided Katir can replicate or even better his 2021 season I will say:

800m:

Ngeny, Jakob, Katir, Farah, Komen

1500m:

Ngeny, Jakob, Katir, Farah, Komen

3000m:

Komen,Jakob, Katir, Farah, Ngeny

5000m:

Komen, Jakob, Katir, Farah, Ngeny

10,000m:

Jakob, Farah, Katir, Komen, Ngeny"

nameruse wrote;

If the comparison is unfair to Ingebrigtsen and Katir because of their age, then it’s unfair to Komen and Ngeny as well. They were only 20-21 in their primes. Even if you don’t believe their official ages, neither had a long career so the complaint doesn’t make sense anyway.

I hate Mo Farah, but you’re lying to yourself if you don’t think he could have run much faster than he did. His 5k pr is from Monaco where he ran 12:53 closing in 54 to win. He was definitely good for 12:45 - 12:48 in a time trial. For 3k, there’s no way someone who could run 3:28 and 12:53 would be incapable of sub 7:30.

Your rankings for the 5k and 10k are absurd. Why is Katir, a guy with one good 5k result in his entire life (from a race where he got towed the entire way by people that are better than him) ahead of Farah? And you have Ingebrigtsen 1st in the 10k with Komen way back in 4th…absolutely no basis for that and yet you complain about people speculating.[/quote]

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Why are you so upset? We agree about most of the placements!

We don´t disagree about Ngeny and about Komen we only disagree about the 10,000m.

Komen had an international career over 11 years and Ngeny had a career over 10 years, But you are right that they both peaked around at 20/ 21. But it is very unusual for runners of North African or European origin to peak so early and to not be able to hold the high level over more years. SO I MAINTAIN THAT IT IS PREMATURE TO COMPARE JAKOB AND KATIR TO THE THREE OTHER.

Katir:

Please note that I made the provision that Katir should be able to at least replicate his 2021 season.

But if so, he has significantly faster times in the 3000m and 5000m than Farah and on MUCH fewer races so I maintain it is speculation that Farah should be the faster.

The 10,000m:

I agree that there is much undcertainty about this distance. Komen never ran a fast 10,000 and he didn´t try many times. Perhaps he just wasn´t as versatile as Farah, Jakob and Katir.

Jakob has never run a 10,000m but I don´t doubt that he (again) will surprise if and when he run this distance. With Jakob´s versatility I think we can use the normal formula: "5000m time x 2+ 1 minute" which makes 26:37. Katir´s 5000m time gives around 26:41.5. So you have (also) to speculate for Farah to better these times.

It is a shame that Komen was burned out after 1999. I'm curious what he would have done, especially in 10,000m. His 27:38 was 3 years after he faded away and probably done on little training. I'm sure he would of also been close to the 10,000m WR in 1999 if he ran it seriously then.This was long before super shoes came along so Jakob, Katir or Mo wouldn't stand a chance against prime Komen. It would be epic to see prime Bekele, Geb and Komen altogether racing a 5 or 10 in supershoes. We would see sub 12:30 and sub 26.

Yakob already peaked. It's all downhill from here.

While I do disagree with the hypothetical that oozma posted for 10k, I can’t say I’d pick Farah over Komen at 10k. Farah was good at beating slow people in races. Komen was racing Geb

If Katir replicates last season, he will be on fire for a month and then completely fall apart when it matters. His range is incredible but you are overrating his ability. He only has three fast times to his name and hasn’t shown any promise at the championship level.

Compare that with Mo Farah who never ran the fast times, but showed that he could and also racked up a bunch of medals along the way. Anyone closing a 12:53 in 53/54 is obviously capable of much faster, yet you see 12:50 vs 12:53 and conclude Katir is better without considering any of the context. Why are you pretending that Farah could not have run faster when there is ample evidence he could have?

You say there is much uncertainty in the 10k, but are quick to grant Ingebrigtsen a 26:37 and Katir a 26:41 based on their 5k times. If you apply the same rule to Komen, he is crushing them with 26:19. It’s laughable to suggest he was somehow less versatile than these guys considering he’s the one who started the sub 3:30, 7:30, 13:00 club. He has the best marks of anyone in history over these distances by a wide margin and yet you have doubts about his 10k ability. Look at the guys who are close to him at 5k and find one that can’t do ~26:20.

The entire point of a thread like this is to speculate, so it’s a bit ridiculous for you to complain about speculation. You’ve shown that you are more than happy to speculate favorably for Ingebrigtsen and Katir. Why won’t you do the same for Komen and Farah?

i don't have anything to add to this, except that I think El GUerrouj's 1500/3k/5k are very VERY near Komens when looked at in total. And this is with very few attempts at the two longer races.

high school xc coach wrote:

i don't have anything to add to this, except that I think El GUerrouj's 1500/3k/5k are very VERY near Komens when looked at in total. And this is with very few attempts at the two longer races.

You’re right, they are actually extremely close if you use IAAF scores (3836 for Komen vs 3831 for Guerrouj). I was mainly considering how much better Komen is over 5k than everyone else who has also broken 3:30, 7:30, and 13:00.

El G is probably the most obvious guy (along with Farah) who didn’t do it but could have. I do think with more attempts he would have brought his 3k and 5k marks down considerably. Just with better pacing he would have been very near Komen’s world record in the 3k, and it seems he could have dropped 5+ seconds from his 5k.

nameruse wrote:

Compare that with Mo Farah who never ran the fast times, but showed that he could (win) and also racked up a bunch of medals along the way.

In the G League of distance of running. Doesnt count.

Olympics aren’t G league.

Mo is one of greatest champions we’ll ever see.

The olympics Mo Fraud competed in are G League. So too are all the championship races he won.

Out of curiosity, what's your opinion on Centro's win in Rio, 2016? I thought it was rather lame that their first lap was only 66, that's a time that high schoolers open their miles in, let alone an Olympic 1500m.

the password is password wrote:

800m:

Ngeny, Farah, Ingebrigtsen, Katir, Komen

1500m:

Ngeny, Ingebrigtsen, Farah, Komen, Katir

3000m:

Komen, Farah, Ingebrigtsen, Katir, Ngeny

5000m:

Komen, Farah, Ingebrigtsen, Katir, Ngeny

10000m:

Komen, Farah, Ingebrigtsen, Katir, Ngeny

Farah beats Ingebrigtsen in the 800 and 3k but not the 15? Seems a bit sus.

1500m-enthusiast wrote:

Out of curiosity, what's your opinion on Centro's win in Rio, 2016? I thought it was rather lame that their first lap was only 66, that's a time that high schoolers open their miles in, let alone an Olympic 1500m.

A complete mockery of the sport. A caricature of what I accuse Mo Fraud of. Mo Fraud may have made a career out of Centro'ing everyone, but no one performance from him was as egregious when it mattered most as Centro in Rio.

OozmaKappa wrote:

Yakob already peaked. It's all downhill from here.

I know you are trolling but for the benefit of new comers I will remind you that Jakob´s early peak/ burn out has been predicted (wished?) on these pages from the first time he appeared here after he ran 3:50 in the 1500m at age 14.

It is, however, quite unlikely that Jakob has peaked at age 20 considering his disciplined mainly aerobic training. In early 2020 I predicted that Jakob in that year would break at least one of these times:

3:30 in the 1500m

7:30 in the 3000m

12:50 in the 5000m

Many people ridiculed my predictions but as you probably know he broke the times in the 1500m and the 3000m in 2020.

He didn´t run the 5000m in 2020 but broke 12:50 in DL Florens in 2021.

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Now I predict that Jakob if he stays healthy, continues his well proven training and gets the opportunity to join some fast well paced time trials will - before the end of 2022 - break at least one of the times below:

3:27.5 in the 1500m

7:25 in the 3000m

12:43 in the 5000m

Which times will you estimate he can run this year?

By the way: I wonder if Jakob will try to break the Indoor WR in the 1500m in Lievin in February. Both Jakob and Filip are participating; last year in Lievin Jakob was less than 1 second from the WR.

OozmaKappa wrote:

1500m-enthusiast wrote:

Out of curiosity, what's your opinion on Centro's win in Rio, 2016? I thought it was rather lame that their first lap was only 66, that's a time that high schoolers open their miles in, let alone an Olympic 1500m.

A complete mockery of the sport. A caricature of what I accuse Mo Fraud of. Mo Fraud may have made a career out of Centro'ing everyone, but no one performance from him was as egregious when it mattered most as Centro in Rio.

Finally we have a new ventolin on LRC. A complete lunatic whose brilliantly idiotic ramblings is a joy to read.

Goddamn I feel so embarrassed that this was my first post on letsrun. To be fair, I was new to running back then, so....