wisenheimer at work wrote:
1:58 at age 50 is age-graded 1:44. very hard.
Isn't age grading based on current world records for the age group and distance? If so, you can't really use age grading as a metric to judge which records are 'soft'
Using other distance WRs for the same age group to interpolate what this one should be would be a better method.
n9 wrote:
Using other distance WRs for the same age group to interpolate what this one should be would be a better method.
i may be wrong but age grading is a little bit more complex than just using the world record of a specific age group. at github you can read a long pdf file by alan jones about the math behind age grading. i agree that it is interesting to have a closer look at other performances:
david heath, m50, 1500m in 3:58.26. according to the iaaf oudoor scoring tables from 2008: 875 points.
nolan shaheed, m50, 800m in 1:58.65. iaaf scoring: 795 points.
to match 875 points someone must run 800m in 1:55.52 at age 50. the iaaf scoring works to compare performances of young and healthy athletes in their prime. but try to imagine what kind of 400m basic speed is needed to run a 1:55. it would be a masters guy capable of running also the 400m world record in his age group, i.e. m50. that´s insane.
have we ever seen an athlete in any age group like this? yes, rudolf harbig (triple world record holder, may 1941: 400m, 800m and 1000m).
wisenheimer_at work wrote:
david heath, m50, 1500m in 3:58.26. according to the iaaf oudoor scoring tables from 2008: 875 points.
nolan shaheed, m50, 800m in 1:58.65. iaaf scoring: 795 points.
to match 875 points someone must run 800m in 1:55.52 at age 50. the iaaf scoring works to compare performances of young and healthy athletes in their prime. but try to imagine what kind of 400m basic speed is needed to run a 1:55. it would be a masters guy capable of running also the 400m world record in his age group, i.e. m50. that´s insane.
have we ever seen an athlete in any age group like this? yes, rudolf harbig (triple world record holder, may 1941: 400m, 800m and 1000m).
So here we are back at 1:55, which seems like an appropriate WR for M50. No crazy speed is needed for that though, in the same year I ran 1:55, I also ran a 52s 400m and 3:57 1500m. 52s speed is plenty to split 56 and 59 in the 800m.
I think the problem here might be more sociological. M50 is where one still has to work, but also starts becoming a grandparent, ergo spending time with grandchildren and the priorities become different, which results in a smaller competitive field.
You have to be a special kind of person to be 50+ and still see yourself and your training as a priority.
Master of LolIy wrote:
I think the problem here might be more sociological. M50 is where one still has to work, but also starts becoming a grandparent, ergo spending time with grandchildren and the priorities become different, which results in a smaller competitive field.
You have to be a special kind of person to be 50+ and still see yourself and your training as a priority.
yeah, you are right. 50+ and training as a priority? hard to believe.
i am struggling with your definition of speed at age 50. even 52s is a bummer (400m all-time rankings). and yes, someone will break the 800m world record (1:58). i am sure it will happen.
adfadfasfsfas wrote:
SHEESH some of these masters WRs are ridiculous.
65-year-old 4:56 mile???
80-year-old 5:57 mile?!?!?
75-year-old sub-40 10k????
60-year-old 2:30 marathon??
70-year-old sub-3 marathon?
85-year-old 4 hour marathon?
Respect to these fellows
Here's one for you - M75 10k race walk is 55:01 - imagine your knees at that point!
An interesting debate and do kind of agree with the OP that the M50 800m is very much there for the taking, but not by me!! The fact that David Heath, whom i used to train with, ran a 1.58 and would never ever regard himself as an 800m runner in his elite days. I felt that if I carried on a time of around 1.54 would have been my target, but alas the drive is no longer there and I am happy being in other sports competitively.
Good Luck to those having a crack and Happy New Year!!
TW
Scroll down to page 49 and you can see how former 1:43 guy Rich Kenah did at age 46!
SlowFatMaster wrote:
https://mastershistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2017-USATF-Masters-National-Outdoor-Championship.pdfScroll down to page 49 and you can see how former 1:43 guy Rich Kenah did at age 46!
The middle Brady always looked a good athlete
"My dudes, I have run a 400m in 50, 800m in 1:54 and 1500m in 3:57, so I am positive that I know my way around.
1:58 for M50 WR is soft and I would gladly try to get it, except I need to wait another 20 years and untill then it will be 1:55 already..."
---------------------
Your times are fine but not very special for a 30 years old.
No way you will be able to run 1:55 or 1:58 at 50 unless you start training much more efficiently.
As a 800m veteran runner you will loose normally around a 1 second per year. So it is most likely you will run 2:14 at 50 if you keep fit.
Which is not too bad. You might be able to medal at national veteran championships!
Tie me kangaroo down sport wrote:
I ran sub 2 at 44yrs and have continued to train hard with the goal of sub 2min at 50yrs. The 800m has the least depth of the masters flat races, and I'm sure from the outside appears to have seemingly 'soft' records.
As a half miler and a coach, I can guarantee it's very difficult to combine the energy systems for an ageing body. Somebody will come along and smash the record, but it'll be someone late to the sport or a former top class athlete.
As a 60+ y.o., running for over 40 years ('legend in my own mind' - level), I agree that the best strategy would be for an elite/sub-elite mid-d guy to stop running for about 20 years, but keep fit with other non-impact aerobic sports, then make his return around the age of 45 and work his way back. The adage of these masters newbies having 'fresh legs' is certainly true.
All of us that have been running for multiple decades know the wear and tear on the legs. The mind wants one thing, the body does another.
May everyone have a healthy new year and keep on running and dreaming!
Wise Old Man wrote:
I agree. I’m 58, and at this point in life it’s just patch, patch, patch. Many former elites are now way out of shape, shockingly so. Lagat however looks like he did 15 years ago. I’m sure he’ll be able to roll out of bed and break those M50 records when the time comes if he cares to try.
Yep, easy peasy, nothing to it.
Master of Lolly wrote:
1:58.65.
That's it, go for it.
I'm 62:
It seems so easy on paper. I look at times in my age group and think I could do it. I go to the track and where I would run 200's in sub 30, 300's in 43/44, 400's in about 60 in my 40's, I can't come close now.
It's weird how much speed you lose.
I'd say first- get/stay flexible.
If I ever decide to get serious again I will take a yoga class and do more strength (as in pullups, pushups, lunges ...).
OldLion wrote:
Out of curiosity, what are the names of some of these "dozen stalwarts" who can easily run faster than the current M50 age group world record that has stood for 8 years? The only names I've seen mentioned are Tony Whiteman, who is the best masters middle distance runner of all time in the M40 & M45 age groups and Bernard Lagat, who is one of the best and fastest middle distance runners of all time regardless of age. As pointed out by another poster, Whiteman stopped competing several years ago after shattering numerous M45 middle distance records and I'm pretty sure he's not planning to come back any time soon. While he probably would be capable of breaking that record if he changed his mind and decided to come back, it's far from guaranteed depending on what his health and fitness have been since he stopped competing. Lagat transitioned from middle distance to the marathon several years ago and has shown no inclination to compete in masters track. Lagat now seems to be focused on coaching rather than competing, so it seems very unlikely he will attempt to break any masters track records. And even if he did decide he wanted to go after that record, he is only 47 years old currently. Who knows what kind of speed and fitness he will maintain over the next 3 years? So who are some of the runners that are likely to break this "soft" record soon?
There are 2 Spaniards currently that will likely run 1:55-1:56, Mark O’Shea from Ireland, and wim luijpers from Holland.
Master of Lolly wrote:
My dudes, I have run a 400m in 50, 800m in 1:54 and 1500m in 3:57, so I am positive that I know my way around.
1:58 for M50 WR is soft and I would gladly try to get it, except I need to wait another 20 years and untill then it will be 1:55 already...
I'm 68.
50 is soft for such a young fellow. As is 1"54. And who cares about 3: 57 unless its a mile.