donnie d wrote:
It depends. If you also have a sub 9:30 to your name, the LSU coach will take you. If not, you’re out of luck. Which is odd when you look at how well (not very) their men’s team ran this fall. Maybe the coach feels like he isn’t good enough to turn a 9:40 guy into a sub 25 guy in 4 years.
You are a bad coach if you can't turn most 9:40 guys into 24:59 guys
You know what's one of the best feelings in life? Going to a G5 and being a 2 x NCAA Dl All-Region XC guy beating all those P5 guys and qualifying to Nationals as an at-large individual. You guys act like P5 guys are amazing and fail to see over 80% DO NOT PROGRESS in college. Tons of 4:20/9:30 guys kicking butt in D1.
Kenneth Copeland, verified millionaire wrote:
not a duck wrote:
V is right. Everyone is unique, but I’d say 8/10 p5 schools have standards of 4:20 and 9:20
And the majority of those p5 schools won't do anything with them.
420 mile?
That's not even fast.
No. I challenge you to go through the top 100 finishers at the NCAA meet and have more than 10 who meet your criteria. My sense is that it will be 5 out of the 100.
hunter wheres the coke wrote:
donnie d wrote:
It depends. If you also have a sub 9:30 to your name, the LSU coach will take you. If not, you’re out of luck. Which is odd when you look at how well (not very) their men’s team ran this fall. Maybe the coach feels like he isn’t good enough to turn a 9:40 guy into a sub 25 guy in 4 years.
You are a bad coach if you can't turn most 9:40 guys into 24:59 guys
This is probably true but no one wants 24.59 kids and they definitely don’t want to have to develop a kin into that… yes that is not a terrible time but the hope in recruiting is you are getting good kids… the reality is if you get 5 kids who run 23.59 you still aren’t making ncaa as a team or even close to having an individual.
Of course sometimes you will happily add a 4.20/4.30 kid but if you are close to your roster cap there is no chance you are giving your last spot or two to a 4.20 kid… you are hoping that a 4.10/of faster kid or portal kid pops up, prob won’t happen but a 4.20 doesn’t really help you win so it’s better to wait and hope.
so much this wrote:
hunter wheres the coke wrote:
You are a bad coach if you can't turn most 9:40 guys into 24:59 guys
This is probably true but no one wants 24.59 kids and they definitely don’t want to have to develop a kin into that… yes that is not a terrible time but the hope in recruiting is you are getting good kids… the reality is if you get 5 kids who run 23.59 you still aren’t making ncaa as a team or even close to having an individual.
Of course sometimes you will happily add a 4.20/4.30 kid but if you are close to your roster cap there is no chance you are giving your last spot or two to a 4.20 kid… you are hoping that a 4.10/of faster kid or portal kid pops up, prob won’t happen but a 4.20 doesn’t really help you win so it’s better to wait and hope.
There's only 45-50 teams truly competing to make it to the NCAA championship. The other 300 teams are thrilled to have a 24:59 kid who is almost definitely in their top-5 and virtually always in their top-7.
V wrote:
so much this wrote:
This is probably true but no one wants 24.59 kids and they definitely don’t want to have to develop a kin into that… yes that is not a terrible time but the hope in recruiting is you are getting good kids… the reality is if you get 5 kids who run 23.59 you still aren’t making ncaa as a team or even close to having an individual.
Of course sometimes you will happily add a 4.20/4.30 kid but if you are close to your roster cap there is no chance you are giving your last spot or two to a 4.20 kid… you are hoping that a 4.10/of faster kid or portal kid pops up, prob won’t happen but a 4.20 doesn’t really help you win so it’s better to wait and hope.
There's only 45-50 teams truly competing to make it to the NCAA championship. The other 300 teams are thrilled to have a 24:59 kid who is almost definitely in their top-5 and virtually always in their top-7.
Again roster limits!!!! Yes a 24.59 kid may be in your top 5 (he wouldn’t be on my team that is a 15-20 regional type) but again 24.59 is a number that many kids can and do achieve… so if I have limited roster spots I would rather save a roster spot or 2 or 3 hoping a fast kid wants to join. There is really no difference between a 24.59 and 25.1x kid (which most team have 10 of) in the grad scheme of things so it likely makes sense to hold out for a possible good kid.
About 75 teams qualified at least 1 kid to NCAAs and many more than that in track for regionals (a goal of lower tier teams ) again a 24.59 4.20 kid is no were close. Most coaches would rather their cross country teams get 20th at regionals and many get a track or xc qualifier than to lock up a group of 4.20 kids and hope they ball out and get 18th.
donnie d wrote:
It depends. If you also have a sub 9:30 to your name, the LSU coach will take you. If not, you’re out of luck. Which is odd when you look at how well (not very) their men’s team ran this fall. Maybe the coach feels like he isn’t good enough to turn a 9:40 guy into a sub 25 guy in 4 years.
Most HS 9:40 guys will not break 25:00 in X-C in College.
I see a lot of threads about be allowed to walk-on at a D-1 school, but what are your goals? Assuming you trained reasonably hard in HS, improving by 10 seconds over 4 years would would be solid improvement but even then, you won't be competitive and you'll be a mid-packer in XC.
This guy is merely a troll, making up times and instances to try to prove his point. In which his point is merely to spread negativity. Not even posting on a registered account. Many of the B1G teams would absolutely love a 4:20 miler as a walk on. Minnesota, MSU, Rutgers, Penn State, and almost every other B1G teams would take a 4:20 miler. The only exceptions MAY be Wisconsin and Michigan, in which I believe they would take a 4:20 miler as a walk on.
With that being said, almost every D1 team will take an athlete with a PR of 4:20 as a walk on athlete. Many teams outside of the top 40 teams in the country will give you a chunk of change for running 4:20 as well.
I, myself, came out of high school with PR's of 15:01 (5k), 4:15 (1600), 9:14 (Full 2 mile), and 1:54 (800) and was offered many scholarship opportunities at smaller D1 programs and was offered a preferred (recruited) walk on spot at NAU, Colorado, Notre Dame, and UVA. To name a few schools that offered me a scholarship opportunity include Virginia Tech, Florida State, Drake, Montana State, Ole Miss, etc.
My point is that you can almost run anywhere with a 4:20 mile contrary to popular belief. Whether or not you will receive a scholarship is a different story and will depend on the program's needs. I would find each coaches email and send them a personalized email pertaining to your times and interest in their school.
Popular belief? You are incorrect. Negativity? That is what some of you do by spreading anecdotal evidence and false hope. There are real college and high school coaches here who have a great deal of experience that they are sharing. I was once an assistant coach of a national championship XC team and I still have many friends who are coaches and a few who are ADs. Minnesota, MSU, nor Penn State love 4:20 milers. It is rare that they allow them on the team unless they have a 15:25 to go with it. But they do not love them. 4:20/9:30/16:00 will almost never be allowed on those teams. If you can't sore at the Big 10 Track meet, you are of no value to the team. If you aren't finishing top 40 at the B10 XC meet, you are of no value to the team. Those are the cold hard facts. Some of you are wrapped up in XC but the majority of the P5 Directors of T&F want to score in track and field and will be happy to just get one guy to nationals in XC or top 5 in the conference. They are happy to sacrifice XC in order to score high at their conference track and field meet and score some points at nationals. Every 4:20 guy on the roster is more work for equipment people and trainers and compliance and nutritionists and ultimately coaches. More bodies equals worse situation in head coaches' eyes. Faster and further and higher and longer is better.
These were the 8th best outdoor marks in the Big 10 in 2021.
800 - 1:48
1500 - 3:42
5k - 13:53
10k - 29:22
steeple - 8:57
Worse than that and you are not helping your team.
That’s ironic because I emailed the Michigan coach (Kevin Sullivan), last year and this is what he said:
Thanks for your interest in the University of Michigan. At this time our walk-on standards are 1:54, 4:20, and 9:30 for 800m, 1600m, and 3200m respectively. Please keep us updated on your progress during the cross country season and as you approach these marks during the track season.
All the best,
GO BLUE!
The cold hard facts are that almost no true freshmen will score at ANY conference meet in the country. You're a lying sourpuss old man that cannot accept that good coaches will develop average high school runners into good collegiate level athletes over the course of their four to five year careers.
You were never a collegiate coach. This is obvious, due to your lack of knowledge and credibility.
Track teams only have 12.6 full scholarships, for teams of 40+. It is inevitable that collegiate teams will take additional depth in order to develop athletes. Stop acting as if these schools only take 4:10 and lower milers and provide some tangible credibility to your claims.
You want to argue against this. Go look up athletes such as Tyler Day and his high school times.
Now you’re going to say I made that up even though I literally copy and pasted that from my gmail.
Tyler Day was one of the top high school cross country in the country. He qualified for NXN and broke 15 minutes. That's like saying a 4:25 guy made it onto Oregon even though he ran 1:49.
Do you know what standards are? I am hiring for an engineer right now and the standards are a masters degree and 5 years of experience. I will get 50 applications and choose the best candidate. I expect that the selectee will have a very high GPA and 10-15 years of varied work experience.
You’re moving the goalposts.
If the walk on standard is 4:20 and you run 4:19, you are under the standard and would get on the team.
That being said, roster spots are an issue, and there’s a whole host of kids that want to run for Michigan. But if you’re under 4:20 Ceteris paribus you’ll get on the team
If you identify as female, you will have to pick from many full ride offers or, better yet, just go pro now and pick one of the offers.
this and this wrote:
If you identify as female, you will have to pick from many full ride offers or, better yet, just go pro now and pick one of the offers.
The OP didn't point that our 4:19 miler had already been taking hormone treatments for 2 years. Yes, she does have a lot of options, but she probably would have run 4:00 if she hadn't transitioned.