Katelyn Tuohy breaks u20 3000m record

I hadn't thought about it but her progression is similar to Effraimson.

There have been dopers that did well internationally at those distances around 19-20. But outside of that pitiful sideshow you are correct. That last world class runner female distance runner in that age group at those distances that was credible was probably Zola Budd.

Worth a thought.

If runners are better in mid 20s, why don't they also dope to stay ahead of the youngsters. Your logic fails.

They do of course. But when we talk about 19-20 year old female distance runners since the 90s who have been competitive at these distances(see eg, Ma's army), they have been doped to the gills.

Point is comparing the 800 to the 3000 or 5000 is silly.

Too much too soon wrote:

If runners are better in mid 20s, why don't they also dope to stay ahead of the youngsters. Your logic fails.

Let's just focus on American Runners where we know we have accurate birth dates

Look at the top 50 or a hundred Runners for 5000 and 10000 m

Then do the same for 800m

You'll see that in the top 50 for 800m you have two 16 year-olds, a 19-year old, a twenty-year-old, several 21, 22 year-olds. All in all , you probably have about eight Runners between the ages of 16 and 21

The youngest 5K Runner is 23. You have three twenty-three-year-old runners in the top 50 and everybody else is older

And it's the same or even more significant for 10K with the age groups skewing even older

And if they had such a ranking for marathons maybe they do but I don't see it right now , I guarantee you American marathon runners would be even older with no one under 25

So if your best distance is going to be long distances you basically have no chance of being american world class until the age of 22

Nope. World class men and women in 800 and 5k develop at roughly the same rate. Too many on this site only follow American progression.

American Moo is best in world while no American women are world class in 5k/10k so your birthday argument is goofy.

Too much too soon wrote:

American Moo is best in world while no American women are world class in 5k/10k so your birthday argument is goofy.

It's very simple, just name an American runner, an American female Runner who has ever been best in America at 5K or 10K under the age of 22

It's not goofy because it's a fact that African Runners lie about their age

If your argument was true surely in the history of all the American distance Runners that would have been a great American distance Runner who did it before the age of 22

But like I said there are plenty of 16 17 18 year old sprinters who are among the best 50 in America, just give a similar comparison for a distance Runner

astro wrote:

There have been dopers that did well internationally at those distances around 19-20. But outside of that pitiful sideshow you are correct. That last world class runner female distance runner in that age group at those distances that was credible was probably Zola Budd.

So Klosterhalfen doped in 2017?

Or Hassan way back in 2013?

Pre

Too much too soon wrote:

Pre

Now who's being goofy, we're talkin about women. Name an American woman who was a top distance Runner before the age of 22,

Hasan. Loll.

And Klost from NOP? I feel like am telling a child there is no Santa Claus.

Klosterhalfen had nothing to do with NOP in 2017 (joined in late Fall 2018) and was top 5 in the world's list in 1500 and 3000m (she was in the Rio semifinals a year earlier). And I actually don't think many believe Tsegay or Gidey (or several other east Africans) to be older than they are on paper.

Obviously, and this holds for most men as well, sprinters and even 800m runners are often better while still very young. But I think one reason for a specifically American problem is that talented girls are driven too hard in HS because there are high rewards (unlike in most of Europe) and college. Just look at Klosterhalfen (or Muir or Reekie or many others) at 16 and at 20-22 compared to the typical US HS phenom. The latter very often peak about 16-17 and either stagnate, quit due to injury or progress only very slowly because they had been pushed so hard as teenagers.

Hopefully Tuohy seems to be on the rebound but regardless of the record, 8:54 at 19 is less impressive than 15:37 at 16.

jolly rodger wrote:

Would be far more impressed if she ran 1.55 like two other 19 year olds did this year, or its equivalent for 3000m (much faster than 8.54). Would also be more impressed if she actually won the race (like Cain did at Worldu20).

This anointing of every American HS star as the next new thing is rather tiresome.

Yes, she is only the 6th fastest U20 this year in the 3000. It's ok if it doesn't impress you, it is still a good time for someone that the message boards were saying was washed up.

The fastest U20 this year, prior to this race, for the 3000 were

8:46.31 Agnes MWIKALI

8:47.85 Caroline KARIBA

8:48.90 Esther MUTHONI

8:51.69 Teresiah Muthoni GATERI

8:53.45 Esther WAMBUI

8:55.75 Zenah Jemutai YEGO

I always get lost in what we are trying to prove with these ongoing Letsrun arguments. World class runners almost always are world class at 19 regardless of event. Mu is world class while Tuohy would get lapped by world class runners. I realize that it is hard for some of you to move away from age groups since you have been so focused on high school running. But there is a 99% chance that Tuohy doesn't become world class. That doesn't mean that she won't run 8:30 in her career. She is a great college runner but she not the best. I will say it again. There are no age groups in college. There is U20 in the world which insinuates that not all athletes are at their peak at age 19. But I am unaware of any world beaters who were competing U20 when they were 3 months away from 20. World class athletes were world class.

Ok. In other sports where the lid came off on doping such as cycling athletes admitted they started doping young. Running is still in denial, but anyway, that is a topic for another thread.