Who were tougher soldiers in WW2: Germans or Japanese?

The Genocide really took off when the British ran into the red from too much tea purchases from China and forced China to buy back opium and murder millions of Chinese. The British, Dutch, Americans, etc. made a fortune on the Opium Poisoning of China and East Asia. It was one of the worst Holocausts in the recorded history of mankind.

The Roosevelts pocketed a Fortune on Opium Trade wrote:

The Genocide really took off when the British ran into the red from too much tea purchases from China and forced China to buy back opium and murder millions of Chinese. The British, Dutch, Americans, etc. made a fortune on the Opium Poisoning of China and East Asia. It was one of the worst Holocausts in the recorded history of mankind.

Who made the opium money? Was it F.D.R.'s father or was it F.D.R.'s father in law?

Vineyard Vines wrote:

The Japanese were tougher...the Pacific campaign was way harder than the European -- at least for Americans. Read some of the projections of what would have happened if we'd needed to invade Japan. Potentially a million Americans and 10 million Japanese. That's one reason we used the a-bomb..

1. 95% of Japanese soldiers fought in Mainland China, Korea, South East Asia. Only 5% were in the Pacific. China was the main objective of Japan in WWII, not the USSAR or USA.

2 The US used Napalm, Chemical Weapons, Atomic Weapons on Asians in the 1800's in Philipines, later in Vietnam, Korea, China, etc. but never used same on White Afghans, White Syrians, White Germans, White Conferderates, White Serbians, etc. because of White Supremacist Racist Mythologies a la Donald Trump, Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhowe, Winston Churchill, Joseph Biden, and do on.

sparky polastry wrote:

Japanese Americans were the greatest of them all.

1 Roosevelt captured Japanese in California, Oregon, and Washington states, held women and children as kidnapoped hostages in jails with US Army prison guards, an International War Crime. Roosevelt forced Japanese youths and young men into the US Army. Before D-Day Roosevelt deployed 25,000 Japanese as US Army soldiers to North Africa, Italy, France, and Germany, while their little brothers and sisters and parents were threatened and under duress, an International War Crime.

2 Japanese Army Veterans trained Japanese-Americans with Japanese Army methods. Most Japanese-Americans had martial arts training from early childhood from Shinto and Buddhist temple instructors and ate red meat which made them physically larger than Japanese.

Vineyard Vines wrote:

Germany had better weaponry.

Nonsense. They didn't even have an aircraft carrier!

The Japanese had a mighty fleet of carriers bristling with deadly Mitsubishi type 0's, the best carrier-borne warplane in the world. They might not have lost the war if their brass hadn't frittered it away at Midway.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Vineyard Vines wrote:

Germany had better weaponry.

Nonsense. They didn't even have an aircraft carrier!

The Japanese had a mighty fleet of carriers bristling with deadly Mitsubishi type 0's, the best carrier-borne warplane in the world. They might not have lost the war if their brass hadn't frittered it away at Midway.

They already lost the war after Pearl Harbor. Admiral Yamamoto was apprehensive about the Tojo's plan to attack Pearl in the first place. And when none of our carriers were at Pearl, Yamamoto concluded Pearl was a failure and did nothing but "awaken the sleeping giant."

Midway was a disaster for the Japanese Imperial Navy and nothing short of laughable. Four (4) of their best carriers were sunk plus one of their top heavy cruisers. The US Navy only suffered the lost of the Yorktown. So, it was 4 against 4 at the start and we annihilated them by a score of 4 -1.

Our Douglas SBD Dauntless dive bomber was far superior to anything Japan had. Our F6F Hellcat fighter could easily match their Mitsubishi fighters. And in 1943 when the P-38 Lighting was introduced, nothing Japan had could come close to it (the P-38 was the plane that shot down Yamamoto's escort plane in 1943 killing Japan's most prestigious & respected Admiral).

Here's the Dauntless sinking the prestigious Akagi at Midway:

They were tough in different ways, but I'll say the Germans.

The Germans endured frigid conditions in the battle of Stalingrad. And in the invasion of the Soviet Union.

Many of them lacked winter clothing. With no supplies and poor clothing, that would be difficult!

Hitler told his units during Stalingrad that surrender wasn't an option. 'Stand firm' were his words, if I recall correctly. Easy for him to say!

The Japanese would dig themselves into the terrain. Islands they held revealed massive cave systems.

One Japanese soldier survived in the jungle until 1974. Almost 30 years after WW2 ended!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda

Vineyard Vines wrote:

The Japanese were tougher...the Pacific campaign was way harder than the European -- at least for Americans. Read some of the projections of what would have happened if we'd needed to invade Japan. Potentially a million Americans and 10 million Japanese. That's one reason we used the a-bomb.

Germany had better weaponry. They were much further advanced. Hitler made key mistakes. Dunkirk was a mistake. Invading the Soviet Union and having a two-front war was a mistake. The worst by far was the Holocaust. If Hitler had instead embraced the German Jews and used them in the war effort, Germany likely wins and takes all of Europe, including the UK.

Definitely Germany had some better weaponry. The Tiger tank was something special. But their air power was lacking - the Luftwaffe was overrated. Case in point: The Luftwaffe under the command of Herman Goring couldn't even beat the Royal Air Force in 1940 at the Battle of Britian. This was Hitler's first defeat and it occurred before the U.S. even entered the war. Lol.

Nothing could outmaneuver a Zero early in the war. All these assumptions you're making are founded on the Japanese losing Midway and falling behind over the ensuing years. If they win Midway, everything changes.

And they should have won. The loss had nothing to do with any US plane being better. It turned on several bad mistakes made by their brass:

) spread their groups too thin, including to invade Aleutians

) too much faith in their code, which had been broken

) assumed the Yorktown would be out of action

) failed to immediately attack US carriers once they spotted them.

The last one alone would have turned the battle despite the first three. They'd have had to sacrifice their returning wave that attacked the island, but they had the planes armed and ready to go knock out 2 US carriers. Didn't do it. Oops!

The Japanese were some of the bravest fighters the world's seen, there's stories of the Japanese starting out with thousands of men and literally fighting to the last man.

Even the Japanese didn't want to be infected by the communism rising around them, that was the real reason. The glory of Empire, and they wanted to remain strong without the threat of marxism.

The Emperor was regarded highly, and is still to this day considered to be a far down descendant of Amaterasu, their sun goddess.

The Grumman Wildcat was on par with the Zero at Midway. At the Battle of the Coral Sea about a month before Midway, the Wildcat had the opportunity to engage your mighty Zeros - and Wildcats shot down 14 Zeros for a loss of just 10 aircraft:

No question the American cryptographers were instrumental in breaking the Japanese code on their plans for Midway which gave us a significant advantage of knowing the Japanese tactical plans. But we still had to fight the battle and Nimitz, despite having only three carriers at his disposal, was able to match the Japanese in aircraft.

And a Japanese victory at Midway never had the potential to end the war on terms favorable to the Emperor. A Japanese victory would have delayed the Pacific offensive but not thwarted it. American resolve was undeniable & the U.S. was committed to seeing the war through at any cost. America in 1940 had an industrial base 10 times greater than Japan and almost twice the population. How could Japan possibly overcome that in the long run? Remember Yamamoto was not in favor of going to war with the U.S. (I think he knows a thing or two about war). Pearl Harbor was a foolish move by Japan - to the point of suicide - as Japan was ill-equipped to win a war against the mighty U.S. No different than some of Germany's top generals & field marshals advising Hitler that Germany was ill-equipped & ill-prepared to fight another world war (e.g. Ludwig Beck, Chief of the German General staff the early years of the Nazi regime).

The Italians...

Their tanks had six reverse gears and one forward gear...(in case the enemy came at them from the rear).

Toughness is a difficult characteristic to rank between people.

The Germans on the Ostfront we’re probably the toughest soldiers in all of Germany at the time. The fighting on the Eastern front between the Soviets and Germans is like being in a horror movie every day.

In the other hand, Japanese soldiers were still fighting 30 years after they surrendered. It’s hard to imagine anyone in Europe doing that except maybe the Soviets.

If I had to pick one Army not to fight I would definitely say the Japanese. The US firebombed them to hell and used 2 atomic bombs just to get them to surrender. A lot of that is due to the Emperor and some thinking he’s a god but those people were fierce and the civilians would have picked up a rifle if a soldier dropped one getting killed.

Well said…

I think Japan lost the war with the US as soon as they started. They really had no way of defeating the United States and it’s war machine. That being said, without a Japanese surrender the US would have either had to launch a ground invasion or a long term blockade which would have killed millions of Japanese.

I think there’s a big distinction between winning a war and not losing a war.

josh1988 wrote:

Well said…

I think Japan lost the war with the US as soon as they started. They really had no way of defeating the United States and it’s war machine. That being said, without a Japanese surrender the US would have either had to launch a ground invasion or a long term blockade which would have killed millions of Japanese.

I think there’s a big distinction between winning a war and not losing a war.

Korea did not lose Conflict to U.S., but it would have been impossible for Korea to gain a surrender of U.S.

Viet Nam did not lose Conflict to U.S. but it would have been impossible for Viet Nam to gain a surrender of U.S.

Afghanistan did not lose Conflict to U.S. but it would have been impossible for Afghanistan to gain a surrender of U.S.

Same thing for Germany and Japan. Germany did not count on the heart of Soviets. Germany thought their technological advantages would be enough. Soviets refused to surrender. The rest is history. Japan never were going to occupy CA, OR or WA. If Japan couldn't win the entire west coast of U.S., how was Japan going to occupy the entire U.S? Reviewing battles of WW2 in Pacific may be entertaining, but even if Japan were victorious in one or two more battles, how were Japanese going to occupy and control the people up and down Mississippi River, U.S? Was never going to happen.

History shows the Americans and Europeans suffered the worst defeats ever imaginable at battles such as Lake Chanjin in 1953. No Americans were taken alive. Each was raped in every possible fashion, starved, then after death the body parts were harvested as souvenirs for sale and for livestock feed. The Battle of Lake Chanjin was the first victory for China over an American/European power since the 1500's Mongol conquests in Western and Eastern Europe. It revived Asia, the Pacific, Central Asia, Africa,. Middle East, Caribbean, and the Americas. The defeats rolled on. India defeated England. In Cuba Castro defeated Bautista, Civil Rights movements sprung up in South Africa and the US. All after China inspired revolutions to fight man to man and defeat the United States and Europeans, There's a million books on the significance of the Battle of Lake Chanjin, which was developed by Imperial Japan and today is the #1 source of water for crops, livestock, and people in Korea,

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/china-war-film-battle-of-lake-changjin-box-office-400m-1235026308/

runnerboy70 wrote:

The Italians...

Their tanks had six reverse gears and one forward gear...(in case the enemy came at them from the rear).

World's shortest book: "Italian War Heroes"

Remember, Lake Changjin is a lesson for all mankind. Lake Changjin can be used as a battle field where thousands are killed and die in anger. Or Lake Changjin can be used as a reservoir to grow crops, raise livestock, water forrests, and supply Koreans with drinking water. Lets all endeavor to maintain peace and friendship. It's what's best for all of us.

Lake Changjin? Is that what east Asians call Battle of Chosin Reservoir? Just stop. How close was Korea to occupying California, Oregon and state of Washington? Let's not make up history on here.