Hockers 6th place is more impressive than Centros gold

missBS wrote:

Agreed w the guy who said he’d rather have Olympic gold than 6th place, BUT Hockers was more impressive.

I am not arguing 6th > 1st. I know that gold is better than 6th. What I am saying is that Hocker running 3:31 and getting 6th is more impressive of a result than Centro running 3:50 for first.

I believe this because 1) a sit and kick, especially one as aggressive as 2016, is “anyone’s race”, not necessarily the best runners race.

This is both dumb and ignorant. Centro didn't sit and kick. He led wire to wire, defended his position against all challenges, and outkicked everyone for the win. It was absolute tactical brilliance. Do you really know so little about the 2016 Olympics that you don't even know how the race unfolded? Please, stop posting.

everyoneisdoping1212 wrote:

I agree to an extent. Centro's 1500 time would have LOST in several WOMEN's 1500 meter races in the Olympics.

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Though more than 20 seconds slower than Jakob just ran, Centro’s Olympic winning time was faster than the current women’s 1500m record.

my 2c wrote:

missBS wrote:

Agreed w the guy who said he’d rather have Olympic gold than 6th place, BUT Hockers was more impressive.

I am not arguing 6th > 1st. I know that gold is better than 6th. What I am saying is that Hocker running 3:31 and getting 6th is more impressive of a result than Centro running 3:50 for first.

I believe this because 1) a sit and kick, especially one as aggressive as 2016, is “anyone’s race”, not necessarily the best runners race.

This is both dumb and ignorant. Centro didn't sit and kick. He led wire to wire, defended his position against all challenges, and outkicked everyone for the win. It was absolute tactical brilliance. Do you really know so little about the 2016 Olympics that you don't even know how the race unfolded? Please, stop posting.

This.

6th place vs Gold Medal

No

merica.. wrote:

Arete wrote:

Gold in 3:50 cries out very, very lucky.

The race is not always to the swiftest, but I do love it when we get to see a race where all the athletes run their best: London 2012 800; Tokyo 2020 400 hurdles

Any single race may be more influenced by random variables than actual talent: illness, weather, accidents (a trip, a missed SC hurdle, etc.). Centro's gold falls into this category for me; Coburn's gold (with Kenyan's missed hurdle); Blake's gold (Bolt's false start in 2011).

That said, Centro has more to his resume than the 3:50 gold. And I'm very impressed by Hocker!

Centro’s gold falls into the category of Olympic Champ.

Some of you don’t like it. And that’s ok.

I don't have an axe to grind in regards to the time Centro ran in Rio. Or his tactics. The results speak for themselves.

Five years latter Hocker runs 19 seconds faster. Finishes 6th, no medal. Que Sera, Sara. They both did well for themselves. Three years until the next summer games. Start training now, then show us how the perfect race is suppose to be run.

DIFFERENT question:

Would you rather be known as the Nevada mile state champion (who won in 4:50, the slowest time since 1932), or place 6th in the California state meet and run 4:12?

Would you rather win the state mile championship in the 1A division in 4:38 and be able to say that you were state champion, or place 6th in a 5A division (largest) and run 4:12?

What do you think is more impressive: the title/trophy/medal or the faster performance?

missBS wrote:

Hear me out……hocker runs 3:31, bests the former OR, PRs by 2 seconds after PRing by 2 seconds in the semifinal, and gets 6th in a loaded field in his FIRST world final event.

This, to me, is more impressive than the cr*p-shoot that was the 2016 final that went out in like 2:18, setting up a free for all, where the best tactician, not the best runner, won.

In 2020, the best runner won, and the best runners in the world placed where they should have, that being at the front of the pack.

This race is more impressive than Centros gold, and certainly better than the 3:49 Centro ran a couple weeks ago.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL - Uhm....No

tokyo observer wrote:

This thread is insane. The love for Hocker and the hate for Centrowitz from their own fellow citizens transcends rationality.

it goes both ways. obviously a gold medal is worth more than a seasons best, but i think the take away from the whole your move debacle was that hocker is the present and the future and centro is the past. this was proven at the trials and then on the ultimate stage, the olympics. americans dont have the luxury of being picky when it comes to track athletes to support so i am a fan of both. centro might be relevant at eugene, but might need to evaluate things after that or sooner. the 5k is usually a more tactical race. if he can go sub 13 he would be a threat.

And you lost that bet!

missBS wrote:

Hear me out……hocker runs 3:31, bests the former OR, PRs by 2 seconds after PRing by 2 seconds in the semifinal, and gets 6th in a loaded field in his FIRST world final event.

This, to me, is more impressive than the cr*p-shoot that was the 2016 final that went out in like 2:18, setting up a free for all, where the best tactician, not the best runner, won.

In 2020, the best runner won, and the best runners in the world placed where they should have, that being at the front of the pack.

This race is more impressive than Centros gold, and certainly better than the 3:49 Centro ran a couple weeks ago.

Interesting theory, but I don't agree. You can only run the race you are in. Centro won the Gold in Rio, and Cole didn't place in Tokyo. Yes, an impressive debut in an international final, but it doesn't get more credit than an Olympic Gold.

Everyone comparing this to HS small school vs large school meets is missing a glaring point. Both guys raced against most of the best 1500 runners in the world at the Olympics.

Take a look at the runners in that 2016 field and tell me that beating them all isn’t extremely impressive. Multiple guys in that race could’ve gone 3:30 or under had they tried. They chose different strategies and Centrowitz won. Hocker has a bright future, but the point of a race is to try to win.

Arete wrote:

DIFFERENT question:

Would you rather be known as the Nevada mile state champion (who won in 4:50, the slowest time since 1932), or place 6th in the California state meet and run 4:12?

Would you rather win the state mile championship in the 1A division in 4:38 and be able to say that you were state champion, or place 6th in a 5A division (largest) and run 4:12?

What do you think is more impressive: the title/trophy/medal or the faster performance?

First off, I think we all got trolled, HARD.

But Arete, you are really struggling with comparisons here. The accurate comparison would be:

A - Win the California state meet mile in a time of 4:30, but closing the last 800 in 1:51 (over 10 other guys who have run under 4:15, including 2 guys who have run under 4:00)

B - Get 6th in the California state meet running 4:06, while the winner sets the state record and leaves you and the others well behind.

Some of you (idiots) would rather be the runner in scenario B. I understand that you DO think that way, I just don't understand why. The whole point of RACING is to WIN. The point of RUNNING is to RUN FAST. These guys at the Olympics aren't just out there running, they are RACING. If our sport was just running, they would each do individual time trials like the cyclists, and may the best man win. THAT IS NOT OUR SPORT.

I'd rather be runner A every day of the week, and anyone who runs for money does too (the perks are better for WINNING than for running fast times).

Think of it this way... when they are 40ish and in a bar ‘tryin to make some girl’ sure both can say they went to the olympics and that’s amazing and all, but what sounds better... “I made it to the final and came in 6th with a 3:31 PB” or “I won a gold medal”?

missBS wrote:

Yes, what I meant was, Centro ran 3:30.4 in a race where he was 10th and got smashed by nearly 4 seconds by the winner. That race was a time trial, not a championship race. He never sniffed a time close to that in a championship race, as a “sit and kick” was more his style than the “hard from the gun” that was used today.

What I should have said was, for a very brief point in his career he was physically capable of running a 3:31.4, but it was in a time trial setting, not a global final setting. I don’t believe he could have ever run that in a championship setting like Hock did today.

I see you are trying to make a distinction between Centro’s 3:30.4 and Hocker’s 3:31.4. But what you described for Centro’s race is basically what happened in Hocker’s race. Both got dragged to fast times in races that they were never in contention . One got “smashed” by 4 seconds the other go “smashed” by 3 seconds. Hocker spent most of the race in 10th and kicked to sixth, he was never actually in it. Kinda the same as what you described. The difference being Centro’s resulted in a faster time.

This is a craptastic take.

Centro winning gold is one of the best runs by an American distance runner ever.

Time is irrelevant.

Centro >>>>> Hocker

I don't even like Centro.

Beavis. wrote:

This is a craptastic take.

Centro winning gold is one of the best runs by an American distance runner ever.

Time is irrelevant.

Centro >>>>> Hocker

I don't even like Centro.

So let's say, hypothetically, Rupp wins the gold today in 2:11:20. Is OP going to say his 2016 bronze was better because he ran it in 2:10:05? That would be super dumb right?

AP5000 wrote:

Beavis. wrote:

This is a craptastic take.

Centro winning gold is one of the best runs by an American distance runner ever.

Time is irrelevant.

Centro >>>>> Hocker

I don't even like Centro.

So let's say, hypothetically, Rupp wins the gold today in 2:11:20. Is OP going to say his 2016 bronze was better because he ran it in 2:10:05? That would be super dumb right?

Yes, that would be super dumb!!

Hahahahahah Hocker goes home DEVASTATED!!!

6th is in fact solid for him, so I should say his Fanboys really go home DEVASTATED!

what happened to that fabulous kick? It ain’t there when the pace is honest. I knew he couldn’t even beat Kerr he’s the best the NCAA has produced and he even knew he wasn’t going to let the little hotshot hocker beat him shoot good think he wasn’t close enough to catch a Kerr Elbow! I’ll tell you this right now, this was hockers shinning moment he will never medal at an Olympics, maybe world champs but not Olympics. I don’t think centro will ever medal again and If he has half a brain he will move up to 5k, but I don’t think he has that upstairs.

Arete wrote:

Gold in 3:50 cries out very, very lucky.

The race is not always to the swiftest, but I do love it when we get to see a race where all the athletes run their best: London 2012 800; Tokyo 2020 400 hurdles

Any single race may be more influenced by random variables than actual talent: illness, weather, accidents (a trip, a missed SC hurdle, etc.). Centro's gold falls into this category for me; Coburn's gold (with Kenyan's missed hurdle); Blake's gold (Bolt's false start in 2011).

That said, Centro has more to his resume than the 3:50 gold. And I'm very impressed by Hocker!

People act like centro just timed his kick well or something, but the fact that he was able to constantly reestablish control when people tried to speed things up make the race really exciting in retrospect. Yeah, it's a tactic that will probably only work once, but it's cool to see a race like that every once in a while.