Tom “Tinman” Schwartz and Drew Hunter/Tinman Elite have parted ways

Maybe they can try Jack Daniels training, where his threshold training is 88-90% HRmax and then perform Daniels' Intervals, performed that reach up above 95% HRmax. Wasn't Tinman foregoing the latter to perform Intervals at roughly 10k pace (in which case a 1k rep would probably be reach 90-92% HRmax). Daniels would say such slower reps would not adequately develop 'aerobic power'.

Based on what's on these boards I had assumed Tinman wasn't getting results.

WTF? He's doing great! Thanks for the analysis Rojo. Tough break for Tinman.

truth sayer guy wrote:

Prediction: Hunter never makes another senior team (WC/Oly).

The first time I saw him run a race, I couldn’t believe he ran as fast as he did—terrible mechanics, looks like a broken dump truck , hunched forward, bowed legs, hips rocking. Yikes.

Also, LOL on posters saying the coach doesn’t know the “secret” training to get to the next level. There are no secrets.

You have to do drugs if you want to be like Mo (Farah, Trafeh...) and go from also-ran to superstar.

I like him and always root for his success, but I do agree about his form. Also, for people blaming tinman for the injuries, didn't Drew run injured without telling him before all the problems started? And then race with a stress fracture?

Reminds me of Charlie "Bird" Parker getting kicked out of Birdland, the nightclub named after him. Or Wally Amos having to call his company "The Uncle Noname's Cookie Company" since the name "Famous Amos" no longer belonged to him.

wesfly gonna have a field day w this

I have to agree w/ Zante here.

Tinman are good at developing talent to be at a high level, but the Tinman philosophy of Keep the Ball Rolling sort of implies leaving something on the table. I look at guys like Joe Klecker and Dathan's whole ON crew w/ similar credentials to many of the people on the Tinman Elite and I don't really have doubts about who is doing more -- even with the small things and with people who are injured.

If we're talking about doing absolutely everything in order to make Olympic/WC teams, running elite times (3:30/13:00/27:00/60:00), we're talking about not only being a good coach at the running side of things, but a coach who knows how to appropriately blend all the other tiny things (that add up to those last few percentage points like core/drills/stretching/massage/sports psychology/diet/etc.) in order to make that final leap.

Hejendo76 wrote:

wesfly gonna have a field day w this

+1

The Dirty Duck wrote:

truth sayer guy wrote:

Prediction: Hunter never makes another senior team (WC/Oly).

The first time I saw him run a race, I couldn’t believe he ran as fast as he did—terrible mechanics, looks like a broken dump truck , hunched forward, bowed legs, hips rocking. Yikes.

Also, LOL on posters saying the coach doesn’t know the “secret” training to get to the next level. There are no secrets.

You have to do drugs if you want to be like Mo (Farah, Trafeh...) and go from also-ran to superstar.

I like him and always root for his success, but I do agree about his form. Also, for people blaming tinman for the injuries, didn't Drew run injured without telling him before all the problems started? And then race with a stress fracture?

There were a lot more injuries than just Hunter though.

I didn't realize he was in Boulder with them, I don't follow them much but the occasional social media post popped up and I never saw any indication of him being around. That really sucks depending on how that move went down.

Have to agree with the sentiment on this thread, most of the group seemed to be doing well despite all the hate they get. Didn't think they were going to make any teams but didn't think they were athletes who really were expected to contend for teams.

For Hunter it is much more interesting because he is expected to contend for teams. I think the biggest hang up will still be lack of training partners to take him to that next level. Interesting too that he is switching back to his parents since I thought they had a similar approach. Maybe they are just a stop gap until they bring in someone new since I'd be surprised if they wanted to coach from a distance on top of all the kids they already coach.

It’s probably a combo of a bunch of things.

The Oregon guys coming on the scene and being the next big thing, Centro being called “done”, and Tinman getting bashed on here at every mention.

Drew hasn’t made much news as of late. He might be nearing his “natural” limits of 1:48/3:35/13:17. Unfortunately there’s a lot more depth in the US than ever. He’s only 23 and a change of training system could be good for him. Mentally and physically challenges him, change of scenery, maybe change of training partners.

Drew might need to do more training and racing at 800/1500.

The Tinman bashing was before Hocker and teare got their Kevin hart shout out

I wonder what would have happen if Adidas would have built a group around him like On is trying to do with Ritz coaching Klecker. Not trying to throw shade at Adidas because they clearly made a big investment in Hunter but I wonder how much better he would be if they had been able to sign a few more guys to stick with Tinman and Hunter when he was fresh on the pro scene

Hejendo76 wrote:

wesfly gonna have a field day w this

Meh, hard to talk trash when you finish DFL in your last race.

Tinman is a great coach, period. Did Drew need a change? Perhaps. Did Tinman deserve this? Doubt it. Will the group prosper going forward? Questionable.

rojo wrote:

Really? I think Tom is a fantastic coach and as a fellow father feel for him personally. Dismissals like this are the perfect embodiment of some the negative aspects of modern society. There is no job security. You ask a guy with a wife and kids to move states to coach you and don't give him a long-term contract? That rubs me the wrong way. Of course, Tom should have insisted on it before moving but that's pretty cut throat if you ask me.

That's just proof of Tinman's incompetence. He put his entire financial future in the hands of a 19 year old kid fresh out of high school. Tinman was an employee of Drew Hunter.

Tinman should have gotten a sponsorship to start his own group instead of using Drew's money to form a group. This was never Tinman's group, it was Drew Hunter's group with Tinman hired as a coach. Tinman NEVER called the shots, it was Drew.

If Tinman is too clueless to take care of himself, how is he going to be able to run a competitive pro team? Tinman was completely out of his element, that's why you don't hire a high school coach to navigate a pro environment.

Lets be honest.

The only result that mattered was Drew Hunter.

Hey, Tinman didn't do bad developing the other guys, but Drew hasn't made that jump. Since Drew is that group, noting else matters.

I don't know what went down but making a change a few months before the trials is odd to me.

shootpost wrote:

Lets be honest.

The only result that mattered was Drew Hunter.

Hey, Tinman didn't do bad developing the other guys, but Drew hasn't made that jump. Since Drew is that group, noting else matters.

I don't know what went down but making a change a few months before the trials is odd to me.

A change of scenery could work. Get down from that altitude. Get to sea level where you can really turn it over

bridgetown wrote:

I wonder what would have happen if Adidas would have built a group around him like On is trying to do with Ritz coaching Klecker. Not trying to throw shade at Adidas because they clearly made a big investment in Hunter but I wonder how much better he would be if they had been able to sign a few more guys to stick with Tinman and Hunter when he was fresh on the pro scene

I agree with you but let’s not say that adidas made a big investment in Hunter/TME.

They’re adidas for crying out loud. His contract is chump change to them.

On another note...didn’t klecker and Hunter graduate the same year? A year apart?

This could have a really interesting effect on the TME guys. It almost feels like the high school to college effect. A lot of them have done really well off of “undertraining”. They’ve got really used to it, and when they hit a new stimulus I think it will be good.

Look at Gidabuday, he’s running really well off of like 80mpw. They’re doing low mileage and low intensity. If they even up one of those I think we’ll see big things.