Congrats to Boling: destroys 200 field - 20.19!!

Meh. wrote:

Oh my god, you're legitimately still a troll. You just try to hide it a little more than you used to.

Devin Quinn:

100m: 10.01 (+1.3)

200m: 20.31 (+2.0)

There's nothing to even debate. One is clearly superior to the other (hint, hint, THE 100). How can you remotely try to hide yourself as anything but a delusional troll? Quinn is a better 100 than 200 guy, and as a pro I doubt he'll pursue the 200 much at all, outside of training purposes.

The fastest White American ever was and still is John Teeters, who seems to be always forgotten, I remember that he was the flavour of day and had a large following, 4-5 years ago. He was running against the likes of Brommell and De Grasse in College .

He was physically , very muscular, way more than his competition and struggled to maintain his speed over 200m.

During his college career, he regularly dropped 6"5 lows indoors and 10"0x outdoors and even went 10"00(+1.9), in the 1st rnd of the 2016 Olympic trials, a few day after his last collegiate final.

He landed a pro contract with Under Armour but then he completely dropped off the cliff

from a regular 10 flat (he even had a windy 9"91), to a struggling 10"2 high. He is still only 27 years old and could come back, but this was intriguing because you'd think that at 22-23 , the sky was the limit.

He is a strange case, which I believe grew way too much between his last year of HS and his college days, and there fore reached his limit way too soon:

Everybody would.....why isn't this guy playing football? His story really is unique, he had that size with speed thing, and did nothing with it. Weird deal!

you forget casey combest 6.57 in hs.....he was 127lbs or so, imagine if he had been able to go to LSU

Look at Laird around the second curve. For most of it he's in the middle/outer half of his lane. Might be easiest to see by playing the race at 1/2 or 1/4 speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRe7VwTVYHw

Obviously you don't want to have the problem that Boling has had with stepping on/over his lane line. But Laird is running most of that second curve a foot farther out in the lane than he needs to. A foot farther out around one curve ==> ~1m extra distance (π x r). If Boling ran 200m, Laird ran something approaching 201m. And lost by a hundredth-second.

I've seen this problem with my own students: If you're chasing someone in an outer lane, as Laird was, it's easy to get "pulled" toward that lane. Notice that Laird was pulled so far, he was actually stepping on *Boling's* lane line in the homestraight!

Of course on a tight indoor track it's harder to hug your own lane line; and the farther in that your lane is, the harder it gets. But if Laird had actually run the same distance as Boling, and their performances were otherwise unchanged, Laird would have won by the better part of a tenth-second.

Whatley wrote:

Everybody would.....why isn't this guy playing football? His story really is unique, he had that size with speed thing, and did nothing with it. Weird deal!

It takes a lot more than size and speed to play football. And most big looking sprinters are small compared to skill position football players.

The NFL is choked ful of former college sprinters, TONS of them, at least 20 Olympic sprinters have played pro football so not sure where you're at there.

The Oakland Raiders

Olympians

James Jett

Sam Graddy

Bo Roberson....long jump silver/9.5 the first speedy Raider

Ron Brown

Willie Gault

James Trapp 4x1 alternate

Now add....

Cliff Branch

Alexander Wright...NFL Fastest Man

Bo Jackson

Napolean Kaufman....Cali State Champ

Justin Fargas,,,,Caii State Champ

Jacoby Ford

Stanford Routt

Oregon once ran a WR 4x1 relay using three soon to be pro footballers, Canadian great Harry Jerome on anchor.

Olympians

Gerald Tinker

Bob Hayes

Ray Norton

Frank Budd

Larry Burton

Johnny Jones

Michael Bates

Ollie Matson

Henry Carr

Marquise Goodwin long jump/10.08

Jeff Demps

Tons of 9,2/9.3/9.4 guys, can fill 8 lanes using sub10.10 guys.

Teeters was out of Oklahoma State, as was speedster Tyreek Hill at first

Ah. John Teeters, add hik to my 100>200 white guy collection.

10.00 (+1.9)

20.98 (-0.5)

**100m superior**

John Teeters being the fastest white American in history is a matter of perspective. Maybe a 10.00 flat is, in fact, the fastest recorded up to this point officially, but that's worth somewhere around 10.10 or 10.09 in "basic". That's nearly identical to Quinn's 10.01 with a +1.3, if not even marginally inferior. But it's probably all a bit moot; one could argue that sitting on the 10.0x these days makes you pretty unnoteworthy, at least in the context of being an AMERICAN, over the last few decades. In Europe it's a bit different. I dunno if that's going to be any different this year in the US due to some instability, but it's certainly been true for some time.

Still neat to see these guys try to get the most out of themselves, though.

As far as using "rankings" within their era as a way to rate whether someone is better over 100 or 200, that seems like a disturbingly subjective tool to an already laughable subjective assertion by you, Whatley. Let's use BOLING himself, and this potentional 2021 Olympic cycle, as an example. We are all in agreement that right NOW, and perhaps in totality, Boling is a better 200 guy than 100 guy. His acceleration ability is just not as advanced as his max-v and his speed maintenance (terrible form at the end of his recent indoor 200s notwithstanding).

Having said that, he may well have a better shot at the third spot in the 100 for the Olympics than he does he does for any spot in the 200 group. The 100 field is a bit confusing this year with Coleman out, the pandemic muddying people's current status, Gatlin being almost 40, Lyles being wishy washy over 100, and the disappearing /reappearing acts of guys like Brommel (who I DO think is back, but it's still not super clear) and Baker. As a result those top three spots for the Olympcs could be WIDE open. Maybe even 10.0x guys have a shot at a spot this year.

Two years ago Boling was a 10.13/10.15 "basic" guy when he could also max out at 20.3x OUTDOORS. Now hes a 20.2 guy INDOORS. The extrapolation of that to his outdoor 100/200 is certainly open to interpretation, but the progression is obviously pretty clear. He's almost certainly going to be faster than 10.15ish in "basic". You start getting to sub 10.1 in basic with the wide open field that exists today, and you have to say that you may well have a shot at a spot.

But what's the 200 look like for those top three spots? Lyles has gone 19.50. Norman is a 19.7x guy who some think should be able to legitimately challenge Lyles (2/4 double not withstanding). Bednarek is already a legit 19.8x guy and has shown capabilities perhaps even well beyond that. Maybe you can remove Norman because he'll likely go full on for the 400 and as a result sacrifice his 200 opportunities, but Boling has competition within his own CONFERENCE in Laird, let alone the rest of the country for that third Olympic spot. Guys like the aforementioned in another post Gillespie, just as one example. The 200 field is a much more clear and stacked field even without Norman, and that fact may leave Boling stuck behind a wall just due to his development point; he might compete with 19.7 capable people well, but not THIS year yet.

While Boling may only max out as a 10.05 "basic" 100m guy this year, he looks to be capable of breaking 20.00 over 200.. That implies a clear superiority at 200 meters over 100m. But what if 10.05 gets you somewhere between 3rd through 6th in the US 100m Finals, but a 19.9x over 200 gets you stuck in 7th or 8th, or doesn't even get you in the final due to a hyper competitive situation in the semis?

In THAT context, and based on YOUR system, Whatley, then we'd be forced to conclude that Boling is actually superior over 100m. Which.....is BS, of course. But...that's your foolproof system, apparently, so live or die by it.

I don't think its going to be anytime soon until you see more white guys going into 100/200. It's almost part of the culture now that it's almost like they "shouldnt" be there.

It was around 1980 during the big start of the roid era in which many finals had 50% white guys and then a couple of years later it went down to 0%. It was a combination of the fact that because less and less white guys competed and the roid era contributed to faster and faster times that there is only a few white guys under 10.

Maltese! wrote:

I don't think its going to be anytime soon until you see more white guys going into 100/200. It's almost part of the culture now that it's almost like they "shouldnt" be there.

It was around 1980 during the big start of the roid era in which many finals had 50% white guys and then a couple of years later it went down to 0%. It was a combination of the fact that because less and less white guys competed and the roid era contributed to faster and faster times that there is only a few white guys under 10.

That's exactly my biggest issue with Whatleys assertions. He's furthering a flawed narrative on the basis of faulty/biased suppositions.

I was a short white guy sprinter who was haunted for my entire running career by being told by OTHER WHITE PEOPLE what I could and could not do, and thus not being supported to achieve what I was capable of.

Then when I would prove them wrong, they saw me more as an example of their ineptitude than as a celebration of their successes, so I was met more with shoulder shrugs and short memory spans than anything else.

If they just would have HELPED me along, everyone would have benefited more, including their own portfolios. But my success would have been best met over 100, so...I was always working against mystical forces of racial assumptions; and again that's by OTHER WHITE PEOPLE.

Maybe if I would have had black coaches they would have allowed me to become more of whatever it was that I was. I dunno.

Add....

Marian Folk....Twice Europe 6th place at 100m, Olympic 4/6 at 200m

Siegfield Schenke.....WR10.0, Olympic 6th at 200m

Like I said the key word here is.....successful.....ok? Nothing more successful for a sprinter than Olympic and World medals, and they do want that world ranking, when it comes to that white 100/200 sprinters have done more at 200m, simply a fact, how it is.

The fastest white 100m sprinter is Christophe LeMaitre, now where was he more successful, yep,...200m.

Been a long long time since we have had any white sprinters on a USA Olympic team, the last was Mark Lutz in 1976, yep, 200m.

The last white American to make an Olympic 100/200 final was Larry Questad in 1968, yep, 200m. He was a former 100 NCAA champ.

I showed you a long list (that you ignored) of 100/200 cats more successful at 200m.

Keep in mind there are 100m guys who don't run the 200 like Teeters, he is a "short' sprinter, then we have guys like Kevin Little a 'long" sprinter, sure both ran A 200, A100 but they weren't 100/200 guys like Boling , Bobby Morrow, Mike Agostini etc etc. I'm not talking about a guy like Teeters, ok?

Ramil Guyilev is a 200m World Champion, Kenteris was an Olympic/World Champion, LeMaitre an Olympc bronze medalist, all at 200m. All since 2000, now what have white sprinters done in the 100m since 2000, well? What have they won?

Boling will become more and more 200m as time goes on as we will all see. People forget Pietro Mennea was the Italian 4x4 anchorman and a European indoor 400m champ, he like Boling had that 400m. Jeremy Wariner started out a multi event sprinter before finding his groove, the 400m, Right now Boling is all about NCAA points for his team so he will run/jump all he can but once the NCAA season is over and atually is NCAA career, we will be seiing him as a 200m cat, call that a gurantee, He is not running 9.8stuff, while 19.8is a....hmmmmm?

Hey Whatley, pay attention dummy, how about taking a few seconds and check your spelling, my God guy is there a word you haven't misspelled.

SLOW DOWN GET IT RIGHT......ok?

Bolling's coaches should really clean up his side to side action. He'd be significantly faster with form work. The fact that he can run sub-45 splits indoors suggests that the 200m is his best event. But he's more experienced at 200-400 and his high school 100 times suggested that would be his best event, so we just don't know at this point. With someone like Abby Steiner, blown away in the heats in the 60m but an easy victor in the 200m, tying the CR in 22.38, but not blowing people away in the 4x400m, you have to say that the 200m is her best event right now, but Bolling ran 10.11 or so legal in hs, so it might still be the 100m for him.

You may be a track historian but you have to be more than big and/or fast to play in the NFL. You're listing over 50 years of sprinters. Most of those guys were football players who ran track. Every year there are a ton of guys who can run under 10.3 worldwide but only a handful will make even make it to an NFL training camp. However, there are a lot of NFL skill players who weren't track stars who've managed to make it. 9.93 Marvin Bracy can't even make it on a practice squad while 21.33 Cyril Grayson, actually made it to the active roster this year for the Bucs. Tyson Gay, if he was good enough to play football could have made more in one season than he did his entire career. Like many sprinters, he didn't have the skill set to play in the NFL.

Not sure where you are going with that. TONS of people can't play football, big tall short whatever. My thing is when you see a big muscular fast athlete you will think football, that is all.

Now I will be GOOGLING to see if Teeters ever did play football, yep, curious.

John Riggins was twice the Kansas 100 yard champ, had a 9.8 PR, guessing he was lighter then. Also won the long jump, over 22 feet.

Remember Billy Cannon the LSU Heisman winner back in the day, he was a 9.5 sprinter,

Christan McCaffrey ran track (grandpa Dave Sime Olympic silver in the 100m)

Eureka!

The first sport Teeters found success in was not track. He enjoyed playing wide receiver, cornerback and safety at Edmond Memorial High School for 2 1/2 years.

The politics of 6A high school football was off-putting to Teeters.

To satisfy his competitive spirit, Teeters turned to tennis and track.

So he was a football player. I had a feeling he had been and would find something like that.

Getting back to listing a Marvin Bracy, a Tyson Gay. As we know most sprinters don't have the size for football, very few sprinters are 190 pounders, most in that 160ish range.

I can list 200 sub 10.40/9.6 college sprinters who played pro football, anyway. I think ya know I can, ha!!!

I think there’s a misunderstanding that big muscular guys fast guys are going to be NFL players. The politics and social pressure in football dwarfs where running goes through. It takes much more than just being fast. For every sub 10.4 guy who played in the NFL there are hundreds who never did.

As for Boling. Big props to him. I’m excited to see what he can do outdoors. Was Kevin Little the last 100-200 guy to represent the US in a WCs or OGs?

I had no clue that Teeters had played football, I just knew it wasn't at Oklahoma State. I just saw that he looked the part as I mentioned, lo and behold......football player.

I see a big muscular dude at the bar, I'm thinking ...body builder, I see a 7-0 black dude, I'm thinking.....basketball player, I see a girl standing on the street all made up waving at cars, yep....a hooker. See how it goes?

Would you believe we have to go all the way back to 1964 and Dartmouths Gerry Ashworth to find a white sprinter on a USA Olympic 4x1 team? Ouch!!!

I'm pretty sure Little is the last white American to run on a USA National team, but......not positive. There was a time his 10.13 was the white American 100m record, and he rarely ran the event.

Personally I don't think race is the determining factor for what your best event but, boling seems to be a 200m guy you can realistically see him running 19.8 but some say he won't break 10, and is very hard but not impossible to run sub ten as a 6.64 60m guy.

Also 19.9 will likely get 4rth or 5th and 10.05 will likely get 7-8th